Abnormally high and unexplained water consumption in house

[andytw]

I think I understand from the first post that 15 litres per hour came from your useage figures (2 people etc etc) and also that your bills are larger than the previous owners. With respect this is all a bit speculative. There is a leak, as the meter is rotating, but the size of it may not be as you suggest.
Can you read your meter twice at 1 minute intervals and see what that says ?

andytw

 

[LikeMyHome]

I think I understand from the first post that 15 litres per hour came from your useage figures (2 people etc etc) and also that your bills are larger than the previous owners. With respect this is all a bit speculative. There is a leak, as the meter is rotating, but the size of it may not be as you suggest.
Can you read your meter twice at 1 minute intervals and see what that says ?

andytw

15 l/h is not an estimate from usage figures etc., it's a real measurement directly on the meter. The way I did it is I stopped using any water for 1 hour (even switched the boiler off) and took readings in the beginning and the end - the difference was 15 liters. (I have electronic meter that measure with accuracy of 1 liter). Then I did the same several times during the day over shorter intervals (typically 30 min) and calculated average leakage of 15-16 liters per hour.

 

[Safety First]

Can't comment on the pressure gauge jumping apart from some flexibility in the heat exchanger maybe.

But just to get back to basics. Please confirm....

1. Your water meter is going around and around when you are not using water.

2. The water meter stops when you turn off the stop-cock

andytw

Hi Andy,

1. Correct.

2. Correct.

Thanks

P.S.
I doubt it's important but just for the record - we have two stop cocks: old brass one (many turns to close/open; was at the property when we moved in) and a new one (one 90 degree turn to close or open) fitted by our builder. All the "experiments" I've reported so far were done with using the new valve.

Given the above-and I know this has been suggested already- but just to make clear one option, or confirm that it has been done.... List and isolate all sources of use. Get person watching (definately stopped) meter on a mobile phone and (mid call to them) visit each (prior isolated) appliance to hear on changes at meter as you briefly turn on iso valves. Eliminate options. Report back?

If any items cannot be isolated, consider fitting ISO valves!

 

[Safety First]

Step 1
Go around and turn off all isolating valves found under or near appliances or fixtures, behind bath panel etc.
Step 2
Check Meter for rotating dial.
If still rotating leak is on pipework downstairs somewhere,
if dial has stopped rotating then turn on each isolating valve one by one until you find the culprit.

My moneys on the overflowing toilet.

Oh,.....didn't see this.

 

[andytw]

Have you included in your testing the shutoff valve above the water meter ?

andytw

 

[LikeMyHome]

Can't comment on the pressure gauge jumping apart from some flexibility in the heat exchanger maybe.

But just to get back to basics. Please confirm....

1. Your water meter is going around and around when you are not using water.

2. The water meter stops when you turn off the stop-cock

andytw

Hi Andy,

1. Correct.

2. Correct.

Thanks

P.S.
I doubt it's important but just for the record - we have two stop cocks: old brass one (many turns to close/open; was at the property when we moved in) and a new one (one 90 degree turn to close or open) fitted by our builder. All the "experiments" I've reported so far were done with using the new valve.

Given the above-and I know this has been suggested already- but just to make clear one option, or confirm that it has been done.... List and isolate all sources of use. Get person watching (definately stopped) meter on a mobile phone and (mid call to them) visit each (prior isolated) appliance to hear on changes at meter as you briefly turn on iso valves. Eliminate options. Report back?

If any items cannot be isolated, consider fitting ISO valves!

From 'Items' there are only:
1. washing machine (WM)
2. dish washer (DW)
3. bathroom (tub, sink & electric shower)
4. radiators

main house water feed (inlet) from kitchen.


1. and 2. - will test over weekend (Tricky to pull out from cupboards)
3. no ISO valves fitted.
4. supposed to be a closed system, so not relevant.

on 1. and 2. will report over the weekend.

 

[andytw]

Where does the pipe go from above the the meter that goes through a hole in the cupboard top or worksurface. It has an isolating valve in the pipe.

andytw

 

[LikeMyHome]

Got it. No, that hasn't been closed during testing, but that only supllies the kitchen sink I believe. Will re-do the testing with that valve closed tonight and report, thanks.

 

[andytw]

it's the chrome thing in the very top of the image. The on/off screwdriver slot is nearly up in the hole.

 

[LikeMyHome]

it's the chrome thing in the very top of the image. The on/off screwdriver slot is nearly up in the hole.

yeh I got it, please see post above.

 

[andytw]

Got it. No, that hasn't been closed during testing, but that only supllies the kitchen sink I believe. Will re-do the testing with that valve closed tonight and report, thanks.

Once you have turned it off you will know what it does as whatever it shuts off will stop working.

 

[jbainbridge]

Can you take the lid off the (suspect) toilet cistern and see if the water is at the level of the overflow?

Or is there a service valve on the toilet that you can turn off with a screwdriver? Try turning it off.

I was amazed at how much our leaking toilet used - a barely noticeable leak can increase your water usage massively.

 

[JohnD]

no garden tap?

 

[LikeMyHome]

Once you have turned it off you will know what it does as whatever it shuts off will stop working.

Apparently this valve does nothing.

It rotates unlimitedly in both directions. I was hoping this pipe goes to bathroom (and leaks somewhere on the way) and the valve could close it. However, the pipe above the valve (see the picture) actually goes into and supposedly through the wall to the garden and (most likely) connected to a garden tap on the outside garden wall. The tap isn't leaking as far as I can see.

Can you take the lid off the (suspect) toilet cistern and see if the water is at the level of the overflow?

Or is there a service valve on the toilet that you can turn off with a screwdriver? Try turning it off.

I was amazed at how much our leaking toilet used - a barely noticeable leak can increase your water usage massively.

Yes, I can and I did. The water level is 4-5 cm below the plastic pipe throught which the flush happens. It's also only ~60% of the total cistern volume.

The toilet is actually old type (20 or more years old) and has not service valve, but I think this is not an issue.

no garden tap?

Yes, there is. Please see the top of this post.

 

[LikeMyHome]

There are still two worrying facts:

1. The boiler always switches on (if it was off before) immediately when I open stop-cock.

2. The pressure on the boiler drops from 1.1 to 0.7 bar (near red sector - meaning pressure too low) within ~10 sec and stays there until the boiler keeps on working for ~5 min. The boiler switches itself off (cos temperature in the house is above the target) and as soon as it stops - the pressure returns to 1 bar.

Is this normal??

NB: please note, the pressure was increased (as it was low) by BG engineer just a few days ago!