Abu won`t go

[ellal]

You do know that he is wanted for crimes that he allegedly committed in Jordan and that he is not wanted in the UK for anything or by anyone, well save for a few

So again, I fail to see the link.

Well he is wanted for crimes in the UK actually...

However the security forces won't divulge any relating information - whether any information actually exists is another question!

And you failing to see the link between islamic hate preachers and illegal western invasions is your problem!

 

[ajrtd]

And you failing to see the link between islamic hate preachers and illegal western invasions is your problem!

You try to link his extremist views to the Gulf/Afghanistan wars (invasions if you prefer) but he is known to have been advocating terrorist attacks on the west in the years before the first Gulf war in 1990.

Well he is wanted for crimes in the UK actually...

He isn'twanted here because as you say, the security services refuse to reveal any evidence they have against him in an open court. If Ken Clarke gets his way that may change. So, he's not wanted here for anything by anyone save a few

 

[ellal]

[

You try to link his extremist views to the Gulf/Afghanistan wars (invasions if you prefer) but he is known to have been advocating terrorist attacks on the west in the years before the first Gulf war in 1990.

I ask again...

Please tell us of an islamic terrorist attack in the UK before then...

(you won't because you can't!)

However, you have now stated there is a link despite you chronology being a tad wrong...

He isn'twanted here because as you say, the security services refuse to reveal any evidence they have against him in an open court.

Isn't that a wonderful get out clause...

If Ken Clarke gets his way that may change.

Be careful what you wish for...

Secret courts have a habit of extending their reach slowly but surely...

 

[ajrtd]

I ask again...

Please tell us of an islamic terrorist attack in the UK before then...

(you won't because you can't!)

There wasn't one. It is you that tries to link unrelated events or non-events(?).

Be careful what you wish for...

Secret courts have a habit of extending their reach slowly but surely...

I do not wish for them. I do however think he should be tried in an open court in the country that wants him without further delay. He isn't wanted here.

 

[ellal]

There wasn't one. It is you that tries to link unrelated events or non-events(?).

Precisely...

Hence the 'chicken and egg' theory looks a tad silly doesn't it!

I do not wish for them. I do however think he should be tried in an open court in the country that wants him without further delay. He isn't wanted here.

If we had secret courts, he would have been tried here.

In Jordan the court is not a fully open court, and relies on evidence obtained by torture...

So your statement is slightly contradictory to say the least!

 

[ajrtd]

So your statement is slightly contradictory to say the least

Mine You make the claim that he is an extremist because of wars that hadn't yet taken place when he became one.

Hence the

Hence the 'chicken and egg' theory looks a tad silly doesn't it!

is in fact appropriate and you that is being silly.

We do not yet have closed court hearings so can't be tried here. As a result he is not wanted here by the Government, the security services or the vast majority of the population. Simple really isn't

 

[ellal]

Mine You make the claim that he is an extremist because of wars that hadn't yet taken place when he became one.

You can of course show where he was considered an 'extremist' before 1990 can't you?

Like I say, it is your chronology that is wrong!

We do not yet have closed court hearings so can't be tried here. As a result he is not wanted here by the Government, the security services or the vast majority of the population. Simple really isn't

If we did have secret courts, he would be 'tried' here....He is 'wanted' by the government and the security forces, but they don't have the balls to put their convictions to the test in open court...

That's why they want him 'tried' elsewhere in an deeply flawed legal system!

And that's why our government and security forces also allow suspects to be tortured abroad and then pay them off rather than risk their nasty secrets being revealed!

 

[ajrtd]

You can of course show where he was considered an 'extremist' before 1990 can't you?

Yes

Like I say, it is your chronology that is wrong!

That very much depends on whether you believe the American's and it's allies started the gulf war or Saddam hussain invading Kuwait.

If we did have secret courts, he would be 'tried' here....He is 'wanted' by the government and the security forces, but they don't have the balls to put their convictions to the test in open court...

That's why they want him 'tried' elsewhere in an deeply flawed legal system!

And that's why our government and security forces also allow suspects to be tortured abroad and then pay them off rather than risk their nasty secrets being revealed!

Where is your evidence that he is wanted here?

 

[ellal]

You can of course show where he was considered an 'extremist' before 1990 can't you?

Yes

Go on then...

Where is your evidence that he is wanted here?

Maybe the fact that he was imprisoned without charge before any extradition request from Jordan?

 

[ellal]

Oh look..

aj can't provide that proof

 

[ajrtd]

Abu Qatada has been linked to a number of terrorists and extreme Islamist groups. It is
thought that he had connections to and received funds from Osama bin Laden and al-
Qaeda. Though Abu Qatada denied ever having met bin Laden, or formally being part
of al-Qaeda, intelligence reports claim the two held talks in Pakistan in 1989. In 2002, a
poem attributed to Abu Qatada appeared on an Arabic based newspaper, which praised
and glorified bin Laden and the 9/11 attacks. He was also in close contact with Khalid al-
Fawwaz, who was bin Laden’s media liaison officer in the UK, currently detained in the UK
awaiting extradition to the United States.
Abu Qatada has also been linked to EIJ, now

You will note this was 1989.
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1301651552_1.pdf

I have previously read of him advocating jihad back in 1987 and that he had fallen out with two other clerics who he was studying with because they didn't share his views.

QI.M.31.01. Name: 1: UTHMAN 2: OMAR 3: 2: MAHMOUD 3: UTHMAN 4: na
Name (original script):عمر محمود عثمان عثمان
Title: na Designation: na DOB: a) 30 Dec. 1960 b) 13 Dec. 1960 POB: na Bethlehem, West Bank, Palestinian Territories Good quality a.k.a.: a) Al-Samman Uthman, Al-Samman b) Umar Uthman, Umar c) Omar Mohammed Othman Low quality a.k.a.: a) Abu Qatada Al-Filistini, Abu Qatada b) Abu Umr Takfiri, Abu Umr c) Abu Omar Abu Umar, Abu Omar d) Abu Umar Umar, Abu Umar e) Abu Ismail Nationality: na Jordanian Passport no.: na National identification no.: na Address: na United Kingdom (since 1993) Listed on: 17 Oct. 2001 (amended on 14 Mar. 2008, 24 Mar. 2009, 25 Jan. 2010) Other information: Associated with Al-Qaida-related groups in the United Kingdom and other countries. Convicted in absentia in Jordan for involvement in terrorist acts in 1998. Arrested in Feb. 2001 in the United Kingdom, was further detained between Oct. 2002 and Mar. 2005 and between Aug. 2005 and Jun. 2008. Currently iIn custody in the United Kingdom since Dec. 2008 pending the outcome of deportation proceedings (as at Mar.ch 2009). Review pursuant to Security Council resolution 1822 (2008) was concluded on 19 Oct. 2009.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sc9853.doc.htm

Granted he does seem to have been a lot more vocal/active since 1990.

Abu-Qatada - real name Omar Mahmoud Mohammed Othman, was born in 1960 in Bethlehem in todays West Bank of the Palestinian Authority and before 1967 a part of Jordan.

In 1989 in Afghanistan Abu-Qatada met other future Islamic activists like the JORDANIAN Abu Musab al Zarqawi, Osama Bin Laden and other leaders of Al Qaeda.

In 1991, after the first Gulf War against Iraq in Kuwait, he was expelled, as many other Palestinians, from Kuwait to JORDAN. In 1993 Abu-Qatada left Jordan and arrived to UK, with his wife and five children, through UAE using a forged passport. Despite the use of forged documents Abu-Qatada was allowed to stay in UK in June 1994 after claiming asylum for himself and his family. Abu-Qatada became a leading member of the Islamic group based in UK Al-Muhajiroun led by the militant clerics Omar Bakri Muhammad and Anjem Choudary.

 

[ajrtd]

Oh look..

aj can't provide that proof

Ah, you drop another boll ock

 

[ellal]

Oh look..

aj can't provide that proof

Ah, you drop another boll ock

Nope...

Those reports were discredited!

In 1989 he went to Peshawar where he served as a professor of sharia sciences

Of course you could rely on the BBC (who never get things wrong) when they say that 'some say he met bin laden'

sadly bin lid had left afghanistan (according to the septics) when the soviets withdrew...

 

[ajrtd]

Oh look..

aj can't provide that proof

Ah, you drop another boll ock

Nope...

Those reports were discredited!

In 1989 he went to Peshawar where he served as a professor of sharia sciences

Of course you could rely on the BBC (who never get things wrong) when they say that 'some say he met bin laden'

sadly bin lid had left afghanistan (according to the septics) when the soviets withdrew...

Discredited? Show me.

 

[ellal]

Discredited? Show me.

I already did...

Bin Lid wasn't there at the time you claim Qatada was...

And the septics should know...after all they had been meeting with Bin Lid and funding him for years befor '89!