Adding a Shower (Electric?)

[ducaticam]

Hello all, I'm looking to install a shower into the house. Currently there is only a bath.

There is a cold water tank in the loft space which I assume mains pressure enters, with two outlets.

There is also a hot water tank on the same floor as the bathroom. Which is heated by electric immersion, and also by gas ( not central heating ) an old heating system that blows warm air into rooms via vents.

What type of shower would suit me best? I don't know if I can tap into the mains if it goes directly into the loft tank, although there is a capped mains pipe which I could use but it's a wide diameter pipe.

Would I be better taking a feed from say the cold bath tap pipe which would be gravity fed and using an electric shower with a pump for good pressure?

The drop between the tank and where I'd position the shower is only about a metre or so.

Many thanks

 

[robinbanks]

Do you want to use the hot water from the tank, or do you want to install a high power electric shower that is cold feed only and heats as it goes?

 

[terryplumb]

An instantaneous electric shower will only work in your set up if it is fed by mains pressure cold water. And you will need an electrician to provide a new circuit for it ,which may be simple or may require upgrading your existing installation.
If you choose a shower that requires the hot water to come from the cylinder ,you will need to have a pump ,as the gravity fed set up you have will result in very poor pressure.
A power shower has an in built pump ,and can be fed from the cylinder and loft tank.

 

[ducaticam]

If I were to install a shower from the hot water tank I assume I wouldn't need an electrician and double pole isolation switch?

I'm happy to install either, whichever would ultimately be a better shower/flow/ albeit into a bath with shower screen.

Thanks for your help Robin

 

[terryplumb]

The most powerful would be fully pumped hot and cold , with a thermostatic shower mixer of your choice .

 

[ducaticam]

Hi Terry, I'm happy to run a 10mm length ( i think ) to the fuse box and down to the shower, I think there is an adequate space on our fuse box/rcd.

"A shower that requires the hot water to come from the cylinder" What sort of capacity cylinder would I need? I'm not sure what mine is but I can find out. "will need to have a pump" situated where? If I could situate it under the bath and have both the hot and cold this might be an easy option? Are they very noisy?

"A power shower has an in built pump ,and can be fed from the cylinder and loft tank" is this the same as above?

Thanks Terry

 

[ducaticam]

Can I ask personally what's 1: the easiest, 2: cheapest, and 3: overall best solution, if you were doing it it your own home. Thanks again

 

[flameport]

An electric shower will require a new circuit installing, probably a new consumer unit, and the electrical supply to your house may not even be suitable for one.
Best case you might get 4 litres per minute out of it.
It's by far the worst option for a shower, and is pointless as you already have stored hot water that can be used instead.

What sort of capacity cylinder would I need?

Almost certainly the one you already have.

will need to have a pump"

Probably.
A shower with a pump built in will be noisy as the pump is inside the shower itself and you will be standing right next to it when using the shower.
A separate pump can be located elsewhere, typically next to the hot water cylinder. They are still noisy but less of a problem as they are located some distance away.

You can have a mixer shower with no pump, but the pressure and flow are likely to be extremely low unless your bathroom is on the ground floor and the loft cold water storage is high up in the loft.

 

[robinbanks]

What sort of capacity cylinder would I need?

Take a look at the power shower you will buy; what is the litres/ min. Let's say 20.

Then take a look at what temp your hot and cold are; say your cold is 20, hot is 60, and you like a shower that is 40. Roughly speaking you're gonna need each feed (hot, cold) to supply the water in a 50/50 ratio. If your shower punps 20l/min then you're using 10l/min from the hot so maybe a 200l tank will (if fully charged; it may be rare for that to be the case) last about 20 mins

 

[Johntheo5]

Triton sell a quite silent power shower with internal pump, its called the Triton Novel SR here and I think the Triton AS2000SR in the UK, SR stands for silent running. It will pump up to 14LPM so a 200L cylinder at 60C and a worst case mains winter temp of 6C, will give 20 mins showering time and at 20C summer mains temp, ~ 29 minutes.

 

[fixitflav]

Hello all, I'm looking to install a shower into the house. Currently there is only a bath.

There is a cold water tank in the loft space which I assume mains pressure enters, with two outlets.

There is also a hot water tank on the same floor as the bathroom. Which is heated by electric immersion, and also by gas ( not central heating ) an old heating system that blows warm air into rooms via vents.

What type of shower would suit me best? I don't know if I can tap into the mains if it goes directly into the loft tank, although there is a capped mains pipe which I could use but it's a wide diameter pipe.

Would I be better taking a feed from say the cold bath tap pipe which would be gravity fed and using an electric shower with a pump for good pressure?

The drop between the tank and where I'd position the shower is only about a metre or so.

Many thanks

I think your best solution is to run pipes in the loft to a point directly above the shower mixer location, with drop pipes down. Cold feed from the cold water tank (CWST). If one of the 2 outlets is not currently used, use that. Otherwise tee off one of the pipes, presumably 22mm, or add a new tank connection. For the hot feed, tee into the HW cylinder vent pipe, which goes over the CWST. You'll need a low-pressure (gravity) shower.

I've done that in 2 houses and it works fine. It doesn't give a blistering shower like some people demand, but it's perfectly adequate and uses less water.

 

[winston1]

Electricity is currently 3.5 times the cost of gas. So don't fit an electric shower.

 

[ducaticam]

I think your best solution is to run pipes in the loft to a point directly above the shower mixer location, with drop pipes down. Cold feed from the cold water tank (CWST). If one of the 2 outlets is not currently used, use that. Otherwise tee off one of the pipes, presumably 22mm, or add a new tank connection. For the hot feed, tee into the HW cylinder vent pipe, which goes over the CWST. You'll need a low-pressure (gravity) shower.

I've done that in 2 houses and it works fine. It doesn't give a blistering shower like some people demand, but it's perfectly adequate and uses less water.

Were those showers on the first floor? Or ground floor?

 

[fixitflav]

Were those showers on the first floor? Or ground floor?

First floor. Bottom of the CWST is about 1.2m above the shower rose level. Depth in tank 0.3-0.4m.

If you go that route, don't pay more for a mixer with separate flow and temp settings, you'll always want max flow.

Can I ask personally what's 1: the easiest, 2: cheapest, and 3: overall best solution, if you were doing it it your own home.

That's the easiest and cheapest (probably, I don't know about instantaneous electric). Overall best depends on individual preference.

 

[ducaticam]

So I decided to purchase a Mira Event XS power shower, which uses hot and cold feeds, and electricity for running a motor only. However looking through the instructions it tells me it's not suitable because it doesn't have a 45degree vent pipe, the hot water tank has a side entry boss, and they don't recommend a hot feed pipe run because of air locking.