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Adding permanent live to lighting circuit.

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Megger1552, 25 Apr 2018.

  1. Megger1552

    Megger1552

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    Hi. I want to put a light with fan in a bedroom but on removing the existing fitting it turns out that there is no permanent live. Having looked at the switch it has been looped through that.
    My question is can i tap in to a permanent live from the same circuit in the loft?
    My head is having a problem with terminating the Neutral at the fitting,as in the Neutral extension being terminated at both ends. Hope this makes sense. Many thanks. Steve
     
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  3. John D v2.0

    John D v2.0

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    Yes you can get the neutral, earth, live and switched live from wherever you like on the circuit. Just make sure you use suitable sheathed cable.
     
  4. FrodoOne

    FrodoOne

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    You wrote "I want to put a light with fan in a bedroom"
    "on removing the existing fitting it turns out that there is no permanent live" - Probably, the existing light fitting in the ceiling has only a "switched line connection" and a Neutral return conductor.

    "Having looked at the switch it has been looped through that." by which you probably mean that the "Line" connection goes to the switch and is then switched to energise the light fitting, with that fitting having an available Neutral (return circuit) connection.

    You then wrote, "My question is can i tap in to a permanent live from the same circuit in the loft."

    One must wonder why you would wish to do that.
    If you have a ceiling light which works as you have 'explained", you have a "Line" connection available at the switch for the existing ceiling light.
    If you wish to operate a ceiling light/fan combination from the existing wall switch box, all that you need is another "switched" conductor from the wall switch location to the ceiling light/fan location, with the new conductor providing current for the fan.
    The "return" current will be via the existing "Neutral" conductor for the existing light fitting.

    Good Luck.
     
  5. Megger1552

    Megger1552

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    Thanks for the replies guys. FrodoOne. I can't use a switched live as the fan has it's own switch on the fitting to enable the user to put the fan on without the light so needs a permanent live.
     
  6. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    That bit doesn't.
     
  7. replace the twin and earth from switch to light fitting with 3 core and earth, use the extra core for the permanent live, Brown for permanent live,black for the neutral,grey for switch live.
     
  8. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Using black (even with blue over-sleeving) for neutral appears to be frowned upon, apparently because it may help to perpetuate the historical association of black with neutral.

    I think the preferred method is to use grey (over-sleeved blue) for neutral and black (over-sleeved brown) for switched live.

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  9. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    So what?

    Preferred by whom? What difference does it make?

    If the majoriy of the premises' wiring, and/or the wiring to which it is connected, uses black for neutral it would seem eminently sensible to do that.
     
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  11. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just reporting what I've often seen said, here and elsewhere.
    Seemingly by those whose views I am reporting.
    Other than what I said, you'd have to ask them.
    I can't really disagree with that, particularly if the installation is entirely single-phase. Of course, "eminently sensible" does not necessarily count for much (brown for line goes against a lot of gut feelings)!

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  12. jj4091

    jj4091

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    I presume you are aware you need to have 2.3m head height between the fan blades & the floor.
     
  13. Personal opinion at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long as you sleeve them properly. I have never heard anyone get pulled up for still using the black as the neutral when working with 3 core and earth, domestic or commercial.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Apr 2018
  14. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    I agree.
    I can well believe that, since I'm not aware of any regulatory reason why one can't do it (provided conductors are over-sleeved appropriately). I think the 'frowned upon' (and 'preferred') to which I referred probably originates from some 'good/best practice guidelines' (maybe from NICIEC, or even maybe in the OSG). However, as I said, it is a view that I've often seen/heard expressed, both here and elsewhere. Maybe we should have a poll.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  15. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Maybe not.
     
  16. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Over-ruled
     
  17. DIYnot Local

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