advice needed

[Christ0]

Hi

We had our kitchen/utility and bathrooms tiled last year. For the past 6 to 8 months however, the tiles have popped from the wall in all rooms, with some now coming off. I assumed the the tiler had not prepped the walls correctly hence the problem, however he says he has done a professional jobs and that it is the plaster that is failing. The house is brand new but there was a number of months between the walls being finished and the tiles going up so I doubt its damp related. The adhesive appears to have set correctly. I have attached some pics to illustrate the problem. Do I have grounds to approach the tiler and tell him its his own fault? He is quoting £450 to fix the work.

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• 3 Nov 2011
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[Richard C]

Plaster isn’t the best tile base for several reasons but looking at the pictures, it would seem that the tiles have been laid over what looks like emulsion paint which has come away with the tile adhesive! The problem with tiling over paint is that tile adhesion will only ever be as good how well the paint is stuck to the plaster; it’s all that’s holding the tile up there. Poor paint adhesion is usually caused by incorrect paint application; usually due to new plaster not being primed or mist coated before the thicker decorative paint coats are applied. If tiling you should never paint the tile base & gypsum plaster itself will only support 20 kg/sqm, including the adhesive/grout weight. Those large overhead tiles could be too heavy for the plaster & it does look like a small section of the plaster has come away from the reveal; marginal though. Weight won’t be a problem with the smaller tiles & although the paint has failed, the plaster still looks to be stuck to the wall so in this case I can’t really see how he can say the plaster is the problem.

The way he’s fixed the large tiles (is it travertine?) is not good; no decent tiler would ever dot & dab tiles in that way, it’s a bodge. Looking at the smaller tiles, there isn’t full adhesive coverage under the tiles; it looks like he's back buttered the tiles rather than apply adhesive the wall & the adhesive itself looks to be a bit too stiff! Do you know what adhesive was used, tub ready mix or powder? Do you know what make was used; cheap own brand & DIY products are generally rubbish. You can also get reaction problems between cement powder adhesive & gypsum plaster but I don’t think it’s either of these that’s caused the problem.

To sum up; his tiling technique doesn’t meet professional standards IMO but I think its poor paint adhesion that’s caused the problem. It is the tiller’s responsibility to determine if the base can support the tile weight, test & prep the tile base accordingly; this is something he clearly hasn’t done. A simple tape test on the paint would have determined if the paint was sound; stick a lump of gaffa tape to the wall & pull it off, if the paint comes off with the tape you cant’ tile over it, simple as that. It obviously isn’t sound & he should have taken steps to rectify it or advised what you needed to do before he could tile; this would have involved either seriously scoring the paint film or even completely removing it. Bear in mind I’m only looking at photos but he’s hardly following best tiling practice & it’s his fault he didn’t check the soundness of the tile base. I would expect him to fix it at his cost but with the mistakes he’s made I wouldn’t call him a pro tiler!

 

[joe-90]

You'll be throwing good money after bad. The whole lot will have to come down and go in the skip. What was he proposing to do for £450?

You'll get nothing out of him - they are your walls and you asked him to fix the tiles. That's what he has done.

 

[lancenotalot]

He hasnt primed the surfaces and also there isnt full adhesive bed under the tiles.

Tell him you feel its his fault due to poor surface prep,it doesnt take long to prime a few walls.

 

[joe-90]

Prime with what?

 

[lancenotalot]

Acrylic primer or use a self priming adhesive

 

[Richard C]

Lance; if you look at the pics you can see that the tile adhesive has pulled the paint off the plaster due to poor adhesion, probably because the plaster wasn’t prepped properly before painting. Priming would not improve paint adhesion to the plaster so it wouldn’t have made any difference. The tiler should have checked paint adhesion before tiling; if it’s poor, the only way to improve it is to either heavily score through the paint to the plaster behind or, if it’s really bad, remove the paint altogether.

 

[lancenotalot]

Rich,

Yes I could see that the metro tiles had pulled the paint but could not make out the paint on the others.Im aware that priming would not help over poor painting but was refering to the other tiles.On closer inspection of the pics I see you are right.

I consider myself told and will never darken the doors of the tiling forum again........................

 

[Richard C]

I consider myself told and will never darken the doors of the tiling forum again........................

Don’t be bloody daft man, sometimes I feel like the lone piper in here!

 

[joe-90]

This is God's own forum. Only the brave and the foolhardy post in here.

 

[tictic]

OP
that aint tiling......thats a @@@@ @@......


p.s....joe90


i am god ........and so is my wife........(well ok but ...the Life of Brian,... is one of my fav films)....

 

[Christ0]

Guys,

Thanks for the responses, unfortunately you appear to have confirmed my fears on this one... its fair to say that this is a botched job.

In all seriousness, am I looking down the barrel of all tiles coming down and starting again (i.e. new tiles?)

 

[Richard C]

If they’ve all been laid over paint that has no adhesion to the plaster, tiles will probably continue to fall off as time goes by. You have three choices as I see it;

1. Stick the ones that fall off back up & hope that the odd tile doesn’t turn into an avalanche & that sticking them back won’t notice too much

2. Remove all the tiles & start again – most may well come off undamaged but there are bound to be a few victims; question is do you have/can you get more tiles that will match.

3. Forget about salvaging the situation, rip the lot down & lay new tiles, this time with the correct prep & using quality trade tiling materials.

 

[Christ0]

I think we are going to call someone else in to try to salvage what is there. The entire walls appear to have come away in one solid sheet so I think with some careful handling we might get away with it. There are also quite a few spares still in the garage so luck could be on our side.....

 

[joe-90]

Are the tiles coming off clean or covered in crud? Not worth messing around if they are loaded with adhesive.