Advice or help please

[JohnW2]

the vast majority of electricians seem quite happy to fit dual RCD CUs and sign a declaration that they believe that such an installation is complaint with BS7671 (including 314).

Absolutely true - but these individuals are also the ones who always install everything else in the exact same way, with no consideration as to whether it is actually appropriate or not. They are only doing so because that's they way they were taught / have always done it like that / the manufacturer said so / the man from the scheme, union, whatever said it was the right thing to do. It's the difference between those who just install standard stuff regardless, and those who actually make an effort with design.

... or, perhaps, the opposite. Whilst what you say is undoubtedly true of some electricians, I am sure there are others, probably quite a high proportion, who have 'given consideration to what is appropriate', and have 'made an effort in design', and as a result have decided that, in their professional opinion, a dual RCD CU does provide an adequate degree of protection against inconvenience to be compliant with 314? As I've just written in another message, I have certainly not suffered any significant inconvenience whilst living with multiple-circuit RCDs, and I imagine that the same is true of vast numbers of people.

Different people will obviously have different opinions about something so subjective and ill-defined. Even you have used judgement and discretion, since I presume you do not feel that every socket, light, or fixed appliance should have a dedicated circuit with its own RCBO.

Do I take it that you would never install a dual-RCD CU - given that, in terms of the opinion you have expressed, you would not be able to complete the declaration on an EIC without lying?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi, I bought a house a few weeks ago and the electrics are all from the 1950s. It has porcelain fuses and brown rubber wiring.

The majority of the wiring is staying as is.

I was thinking that a rewire would have been in region of £400 to £800...I got about 50 metres of fencing for £30 back in the day as it was getting chucked by council. Also got a wooden garage for £40. Now a garden shed is about £400...I was quoted £1500 to install my kitchen. that was just to put in the cabinets and worktop not wiring.

I think we have just got to the root of the problem.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do I take it that you would never install a dual-RCD CU - given that, in terms of the opinion you have expressed, you would not be able to complete the declaration on an EIC without lying?

Never mind an EIC - I'd like to know how he codes it on an EICR

 

[JohnW2]

Do I take it that you would never install a dual-RCD CU - given that, in terms of the opinion you have expressed, you would not be able to complete the declaration on an EIC without lying?

Never mind an EIC - I'd like to know how he codes it on an EICR

As I suspect you're implying, I very much doubt that he does (which would clearly be a bit inconsistent, or worse, on his part) - but if he did, it would clearly have to be a C3, citing 314.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Bobby10]

Perhaps im from a time long gone but perhaps you should read a bit more carefully.

All the lighting is on old style wiring.

The sockets are on twin and earth with red/black and earth.

It would seem that no one on this forum agrees with the other anyway. Each electrician has their own preferences and their own way of doing things.

From the 3 electricians I have had out each had their own design. None were the same. They all used different products or had different ideas.

Certainly most houses I have been in are wired with a split load consumer unit. So to RCDs and a main switch. Probably because its cheap.

If you have every circuit on an RCBO then it costs alot more. My house is on a split load and I have never had any problems in 10 years. Never tripped once.

It is exactly as I said one electrician recommends something and all others correct him on the way they would do it.

I just came on for a bit of advice, never once did I say I was an electrician. I am not a dafty though. I understand what people are saying.

I could do the running of cables and converting sockets to doubles and stuff myself. I was going to get an electrician to fit the consumer unit. They would test the circuits before hooking it up wth their megger tester.

10 double sockets up stair, 5 downstair, 3 double and 2 single in kitchen.

so 10 up and 10 down. Lights up and lights down, cooker, boiler. Might change to a mixer shower instead of the electric.

I will design a layout and ask my electrician friend. As no one on here seems to be of any help. Just you cant do this and you dont know that. It would appear that half of you do not have a clue either and not one of you agree with the other.

 

[EFLImpudence]

When will we learn to answer the questions with what the questioner wants to hear?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Perhaps im from a time long gone but perhaps you should read a bit more carefully.

And some more careful writing from you would not go amiss:

Hi, I bought a house a few weeks ago and the electrics are ALL from the 1950s. It has porcelain fuses and brown rubber wiring.

From the 3 electricians I have had out each had their own design. None were the same. They all used different products or had different ideas.

Why should they not use different products? Does everybody you know drive the same model of car, own the same model of TV etc?

If you have every circuit on an RCBO then it costs alot more

Not these days.

I could do the running of cables and converting sockets to doubles and stuff myself. I was going to get an electrician to fit the consumer unit. They would test the circuits before hooking it up wth their megger tester.

Who is going to sign these:

I being the person responsible for the Design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to .............(date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.


I being the person responsible for the Construction of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Construction, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to .............(date) except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.

?

I will design a layout and ask my electrician friend. As no one on here seems to be of any help.

What you mean is you aren't getting the answers you decided you wanted before you asked the questions.

Just you cant do this and you dont know that.

Well, for a circuit to supply a given load, do you know how to go about deciding what cable and protective device to use? (No, you can't just copy what's there because it's going to become your responsibility and what's there might be wrong.)

Do you know which circuits can be ring finals and which cannot, and what the advantages and disadvantages of each are? (No, you can't just copy what's there because it's going to become your responsibility and what's there might be wrong.)

Do you know how to calculate maximum demand and how can diversity be used?

Do you know what the 3 different types of domestic single-phase supplies provided in this country are , and how to recognise them, and what differences each make to the requirements for the rest of the installation, particularly any outdoor supplies?

Can you correctly identify all components and connections of a circuit by method of testing or otherwise? In doing so can you identify or recognise anything wrong or dangerous with the circuit? You cannot assume that what's currently installed is OK, and you need to check it before starting work.

Do you understand how the way in which cables are installed affects how much current they can carry? (No, you can't just copy what's there because it's going to become your responsibility and what's there might be wrong.)

Where cables need to be joined, do you know how this should be done / not be done and in what circumstances are different methods acceptable?

Can you identify extraneous conductive parts, and do you know the requirements for main and supplementary bonding of them?

Do you know which circuits should be RCD protected?

Do you believe you are qualified to issue an Electrical Installation Certificate for the rewire?

It would appear that half of you do not have a clue either and not one of you agree with the other.

Some of us have different interpretations of a regulation about division of circuits. As you are competent to design domestic electrical installations, you should be able to join in that discussion.

I am sure I could read up enough combined with my physics understanding current and voltage on circuits im sure I could work it out.

Well why don't you, then? That would be a start, and get you one of the bits of knowledge you'll need.

 

[JohnW2]

When will we learn to answer the questions with what the questioner wants to hear?

When we all become politicians, I guess!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

When will we learn to answer the questions with what the questioner wants to hear?

When we all become politicians, I guess!

Ah, yes.

When we no longer have to tell the truth but are forbidden from calling our colleagues liars.

 

[JohnW2]

When we all become politicians, I guess!

Ah, yes. ... When we no longer have to tell the truth but are forbidden from calling our colleagues liars.[/quote]
Exactly. But ISTR that one can accuse them of being "economical with the truth"!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You could call them inveterate plumbers.