Advice re: wet electric CH and HW, please!!

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DESPERATELY need some advice from some knowledgeable peeps, and this looks like the place to find it... :)

I have just bought a 2-bed 1950's ex-LA semi, pretty well insulated in the loft, double glazed apart from the doors (1 front, 1 back), think it might also have cavity insulation as well but not 100% sure on that....

The heating/hot water system in this house comprises some really ancient NSHs - 2 in the lounge-diner, 1 in the hall, 1 in each bedroom - with a wall mounted fan heater in bathroom, a HYOOOOGE immersion tank in a cupboard in bedroom 2 (E7 main IH plus booster), and a coal-effect fan heater fire-thing in the living room (which is awful and chucks out hardly any heat).

I do not have a gas supply here, and don't really want to get one installed (even though I do prefer it, just too much hassle and expense and really not practical).

I'm on a standard E7 tariff and my electricity costs have skyrocketed! My previous house was a 3-bed terrace, full GCH (fed from a combi) with gas cooker, and my combined bills were £57 monthly (budget plan fixed payments), which was more than adequate to cover the bills. In this new place, I'm paying £80 monthly - my energy supplier wants to bump me up to £120/mth (which is way over the odds for a 2-bed semi IMHO) but I've only been here since October and I haven't had my summer quarter bills yet, so they can just hang on a bit... I appreciate energy prices have gone up a fair old chunk, but even so, the cost of heating this place is just nuts!

My NSH system (when I dare use it) is crap - I am baking hot all night and freezing my bits off during the day.

I'm at work all day, so the heating is really only needed evenings / weekends. My washing machine is cold fill only, so doesn't need a hot water supply.

My daughter and grandson might be coming to live with me for a while, so I might find that I need daytime heating as well for the little one, but we aren't heat freaks like that - 18-20 deg is fine for main lounge-diner, 16-18 deg for hallway and bedrooms.

To replace the heating I was considering getting EWCH installed. I'm now thinking about getting an electric thermal store installed, running off E7 for the heating, and undersink instant hot water (2 units, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom) so that I don't need a huge thermal store (cos I don't have much room for it). I have an electric overbath shower which is what I use mostly, but I do like the odd soak in the tub to unwind now and then, so the HW unit in the bathroom would have to be up to the job of filling the occasional bath.

Can anyone see the obvious flaws in the plan? Is this going to be an expensive way of doing things? I'd much rather heat the hot water as I need it (a sink/bathful at a time) than heat a huge tank of water over and over every night, and have the heating on only when I need it (i.e. in the evenings, not roasting me in my bed all night). The thermal store + wet CH seems to me to be the best way of making use of E7 and giving me controllable room heating when I want it. I appreciate the electricity to heat the hot water will be at peak rate, but is it really going to be that expensive to do it that way?

Advice / opinions / ridicule - any and all of these are welcome!
 
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DESPERATELY need some advice from some knowledgeable peeps, and this looks like the place to find it... :)

I have just bought a 2-bed 1950's ex-LA semi, pretty well insulated in the loft, double glazed apart from the doors (1 front, 1 back), think it might also have cavity insulation as well but not 100% sure on that....

The heating/hot water system in this house comprises some really ancient NSHs - 2 in the lounge-diner, 1 in the hall, 1 in each bedroom - with a wall mounted fan heater in bathroom, a HYOOOOGE immersion tank in a cupboard in bedroom 2 (E7 main IH plus booster), and a coal-effect fan heater fire-thing in the living room (which is awful and chucks out hardly any heat).

I do not have a gas supply here, and don't really want to get one installed (even though I do prefer it, just too much hassle and expense and really not practical).

I'm on a standard E7 tariff and my electricity costs have skyrocketed! My previous house was a 3-bed terrace, full GCH (fed from a combi) with gas cooker, and my combined bills were £57 monthly (budget plan fixed payments), which was more than adequate to cover the bills. In this new place, I'm paying £80 monthly - my energy supplier wants to bump me up to £120/mth (which is way over the odds for a 2-bed semi IMHO) but I've only been here since October and I haven't had my summer quarter bills yet, so they can just hang on a bit... I appreciate energy prices have gone up a fair old chunk, but even so, the cost of heating this place is just nuts!

My NSH system (when I dare use it) is rubbish - I am baking hot all night and freezing my bits off during the day.

I'm at work all day, so the heating is really only needed evenings / weekends. My washing machine is cold fill only, so doesn't need a hot water supply.

My daughter and grandson might be coming to live with me for a while, so I might find that I need daytime heating as well for the little one, but we aren't heat freaks like that - 18-20 deg is fine for main lounge-diner, 16-18 deg for hallway and bedrooms.

To replace the heating I was considering getting EWCH installed. I'm now thinking about getting an electric thermal store installed, running off E7 for the heating, and undersink instant hot water (2 units, one in the kitchen and one in the bathroom) so that I don't need a huge thermal store (cos I don't have much room for it). I have an electric overbath shower which is what I use mostly, but I do like the odd soak in the tub to unwind now and then, so the HW unit in the bathroom would have to be up to the job of filling the occasional bath.

Can anyone see the obvious flaws in the plan? Is this going to be an expensive way of doing things? I'd much rather heat the hot water as I need it (a sink/bathful at a time) than heat a huge tank of water over and over every night, and have the heating on only when I need it (i.e. in the evenings, not roasting me in my bed all night). The thermal store + wet CH seems to me to be the best way of making use of E7 and giving me controllable room heating when I want it. I appreciate the electricity to heat the hot water will be at peak rate, but is it really going to be that expensive to do it that way?

Advice / opinions / ridicule - any and all of these are welcome!

hows about being really brave and have a wet heating system powered by air source heat pump with electric boiler backup with unvented storage of hw with a green tarif for your electric supply. stuff insulation everywhere and oversize rads 30% :!:
 
hows about being really brave and have a wet heating system powered by air source heat pump with electric boiler backup with unvented storage of hw with a green tarif for your electric supply. stuff insulation everywhere and oversize rads 30%

ERm... cos I'm not made of money!!

ASHP seem to be pretty expensive (plus where should it be fitted / how much room does it take up), and green tariffs are more expensive than std, even on E7...

Plus... something I've always meant to ask someone and never have - what are the advantages (if any) of oversizing on rads?
 
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Andy...duh! That's what I'm asking about.... thermal store incorporating / connected to ELEC boiler on E7....

It's Ok - it's late and you're probably tired.... :D
 
You could always try Heatre sadia electric instant heaters above all your sinks and bath. Or a seperate hot water cylinder with emersion heaters, but you have not got room for that, and your bills will be higher. You could always get a gas boiler fed from propagne gas. but i suppose your budget would not cope with this.
 
Andy,
Was thinking about undersink units for bathroom and kitchen (Redring Powaflow or something like that - I know Heatrae Sadia do something along the same lines). I've got a HW cylinder with immersion heaters that runs on E7, but it is still expensive to run and won't support wet CH. Propane's really not an option because I don't have the room for storage (plus my immediate neighbour to the rear of the house is a primary school, and I can't see them being too happy about me having a huge propane tank in my back garden!!).

I do like the idea of an ASHP supplying a thermal store with E7 elec boiler boost/top-up, but this is a small 2-bed semi so I'm worried about the noise. Also siting one might be a little difficult (I know they can be put in the roofspace but I want to do a loft conversion at some point in the future), plus the capital outlay is a bit out of my budget range (although I do appreciate that it would save me on my energy bills and pay for itself in the longer term). I'm just looking at the most cost-effective way of sorting out my heating/HW needs without breaking the bank or costing me a fortune to run...
 
hows about being really brave and have a wet heating system powered by air source heat pump with electric boiler backup with unvented storage of hw with a green tarif for your electric supply. stuff insulation everywhere and oversize rads 30%

ERm... cos I'm not made of money!!

ASHP seem to be pretty expensive (plus where should it be fitted / how much room does it take up), and green tariffs are more expensive than std, even on E7...

Plus... something I've always meant to ask someone and never have - what are the advantages (if any) of oversizing on rads?

heat pumps have low flow temp so need larger surface area to get output thats why ufh is suited. ashp outside, size of ac unit, trianco got some cheap ones on market. not the cheapest system but better then wtr htrs everywhere and electric heaters your scared to run.
 
I want a jag but my garage is not big enough.I am only prepared to pay for a push bike. But can i get a jag. How can i do this anybody got any good ideas
 
Andy,
Was thinking about undersink units for bathroom and kitchen (Redring Powaflow or something like that - I know Heatrae Sadia do something along the same lines). I've got a HW cylinder with immersion heaters that runs on E7, but it is still expensive to run and won't support wet CH. Propane's really not an option because I don't have the room for storage (plus my immediate neighbour to the rear of the house is a primary school, and I can't see them being too happy about me having a huge propane tank in my back garden!!).

Ok you have a hot water cylinder that heats up your hot water. This would supply all your hot water out lets. One cost.
If you than add more seperate instantanious water heaters for seperate outlets this would cost more money. Cost for seperate appliances £250.00. Cost for re configuration of pipework. And extra cost for seperate electrics.
 
Andy, get off it! You're a big boy - behave like one, please!

I have a small 2 bed semi and a limited budget. Although I really like the idea of an ASHP, I really don't think it's practical in terms of a) possible noise nuisance for myself and/or my neighbours, b) size/siting or c) capital outlay. If I had a larger garden or a detatched house and I could site it somewhere where the size and noise wouldn't be an issue, I'd certainly be considering an ASHP. It wasn't a crap suggestion, I just don't think it's the most appropriate for me, thanks.

Cider, could I do UFH if I have wooden floors? I understand what you are getting at regarding the low flow rate, plus UFH has a lower overall heat requirement. The combination elec boiler/thermal store option has a similar sort of footprint to the direct cylinder I have at the moment, so I wouldn't lose any room, but I don't know if a unit of that size would be enough to run the HW as well, which is why I was considering the undersink units for HW instead - then I only have to look at a boiler/TS big enough to supply just the heating (if that makes any sense).

Also - can either of you answer my question about oversizing rads?
 
Its more cost to have seperate heating. and seperate hot water. Since you have a low buget
 
EcoDAN air source heat pump. Variable rate compressor.

Quieter than other units, made by Mitsubishi. Next generation product, today. Most ashp have fixed rate compressor which gives poorer CoP due to degree minute issues.

You either pay through the nose for basic electric heating or pay a little more now for an ASHP and then get rewarded with lower energy bills.

You can't have it both ways. If there was a cheap format of fitting low running cost electric heating we would all be doing it.
 

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