1. Visiting from the US? Why not try DIYnot.US instead? Click here to continue to DIYnot.US.
    Dismiss Notice

Airgun advice?

Discussion in 'Hobbies' started by d000hg, 20 Mar 2020.

  1. KenGMac

    KenGMac

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2010
    Messages:
    3,116
    Thanks Received:
    557
    Location:
    Ayrshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No not an incorrect statement at all, Dieseling is a fact, that any "petroleum / Oil" based product, Oil, Grease, will cause a very large increase in the speed the pellet leaves the weapon.

    I have seen an Air Rifle undergo a [non Dieseled ] test and it was rated at 10.6 Foot pounds a few drops of [in this case 3 in 1 Oil was added to the breach, behind the Pellet the weapon tested and its power had moved upwards to [about] 17 Foot Pounds. i cannot recall if it was a 0.22 or 0.177?

    Any air weapon over 12 Foot pounds will have to be registered and a Fire Arms Certificate obtained [if possible] bottom line is that if you are found with an air weapon that produces anything above 12 Foot Pounds that is a Firearms Offence, if you do not have it registered and hold an FAC, for the weapon.

    Ken.
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. d000hg

    d000hg

    Joined:
    17 May 2013
    Messages:
    1,339
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    As I say, they are smart... they are simply not going in the trap we have even after more than a week.

    The drowning method is (according to online research) a bit error-prone (rats are smart) and also not particularly humane. You also have to deal with a bucket full of dead animals. I saw someone using one on Youtube in their barn and thought it hadn't caught anything, only to realise the water was just dirty and there were several submerged.

    We also need to ensure traps are safe from our chickens either being hurt by them or setting them off all the time. I hoped the chickens would attack the rats but they don't seem bothered. Waiting outside with the gun seems the better option I just need to put in the time. Maybe the weather will be good at the weekend :)
     
  4. Brigadier

    Brigadier

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    8,507
    Thanks Received:
    624
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    But Ken, is it through ignition, or through vaporisation?


    Edit: another idea.
    Vaseline / 3 in 1 / whatever gets seriously squished when the piston slams forward, causing it to heat up (a lot).
    Thus, seriously increasing the overall pressure behind the pellet, above and beyond that if just fresh air is present, and squashed.
    Possibly?
     
    Last edited: 4 Jun 2020
  5. Tigercubrider

    Tigercubrider

    Joined:
    22 Jul 2016
    Messages:
    3,534
    Thanks Received:
    554
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Rats are very suspicious, probably because everyone's been trying everything to kill them for thousands of years. So a "new item" on a route is avoided for quite a while until it becomes familiar. Peanut butter is a tempting bait but you need to ensure that other animals don't get trapped
     
  6. Brigadier

    Brigadier

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    8,507
    Thanks Received:
    624
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    "Lubricating oil combustion in the compression chamber of a spring-piston air gun has a significant impact on the internal dynamics and on the performance of the gun. Using a well-known hydrocarbon (n-octane) as a proxy fuel for the lubricants that cause dieseling, this analysis reveals that a spring piston air gun responds to dieseling by delivering higher muzzle energy to the projectile in a non-linear relationship with the amount of fuel burnt - the grater the amount of lubricant burnt, the less efficient the transfer of combustion energy to the projectile. Dieseling causes substantial rises in peak temperatures and, depending on the ignition characteristics of the fuel, it mal also cause significantly higher pressure peaks within the compression chamber. For typical operating parameters, computations suggest that practically all the hydrocarbon is consumed before the projectile undergoes any significant movement within the barrel. Combustion happens extremely fast, with all the available fuel (or oxygen in a rich mixture) being exhausted within a small fraction of a millisecond."

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...#:~:text=When the piston seal or,firing cycle.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. KenGMac

    KenGMac

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2010
    Messages:
    3,116
    Thanks Received:
    557
    Location:
    Ayrshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    The interesting bit is that the Volume of "OIL" is very small but the effect is Large on the M/V and Foot pound produced.

    if you consider it, how much "OIL" can you get behind a pellet in a breach?

    Ken
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  8. Brigadier

    Brigadier

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    8,507
    Thanks Received:
    624
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Problem is, apart from being illegal, the inconsistent muzzle velocity would make accuracy effectively non - existent.
    Which would render a. 177 or. 22, even approaching 20 ft lbs, pointless.
     
  9. KenGMac

    KenGMac

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2010
    Messages:
    3,116
    Thanks Received:
    557
    Location:
    Ayrshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    There are a lot of shooters that have actively sought out and are using Air Weapons that have a FAC? they are on sale commercially, and are accurate?

    As I understand it?? it is cheaper to have a PCP giving [say] 5 shots at possibly well above 20 Ft. lbs. rather than using a rim fire .22 or .223. Also an air weapon is easier to "Silence" than a rim fire and a load easier than a center fire, It is also possible that an air weapon needing an FAC will be cheaper to run than a rim fire .22 with [good quality] ammunition at £ 8.50 / 50?

    As an aside in America [where else] there are a load of people that have 50 cal air weapons, and In South Africa they hunt wild bore with 50 cal air weapons, needless to say these weapons are well above 12 Ft. lbs.

    Ken.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. EddieM

    EddieM

    Joined:
    15 Feb 2009
    Messages:
    9,655
    Thanks Received:
    578
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Air rifles have a use, but like anything if you try to mess with it's operating parameters, you're using the wrong tool. Time to get (apply) for a FAC and get a proper. 22 rifle.
     
  12. KenGMac

    KenGMac

    Joined:
    24 Aug 2010
    Messages:
    3,116
    Thanks Received:
    557
    Location:
    Ayrshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Why not go all out?

    Go for a 0.308 the thought still scares me, I cannot get used to that slight but very noticeable vision distortion when you release the trigger, drawback, lack of ranges, cost of a round [last time I looked] about £ 1.00 + / bang

    Going back to the FAC air weapons, these things are not just a 12 Ft. Lbs. weapon Tweaked, rather they are purpose designed for the job, I have heard it said that the recoil from a FAC, PCP is easier to handle and account for. Certainly the recoil from a 0.308 [for anyone reading this and is new to this sport a 0.308 is the "Sporting" caliber of the 7,62. mm round] is not ever, ever to be underestimated.

    Ken.
     
  13. Brigadier

    Brigadier

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    8,507
    Thanks Received:
    624
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Not me, EddieM ; I was quite happy with the weihrauch, and the pleasant target shooting in me mam's garden (and field beyond) (y)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. foxhole

    foxhole

    Joined:
    14 Mar 2006
    Messages:
    16,225
    Thanks Received:
    1,817
    Location:
    Kent
    Country:
    United Kingdom
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Lower

    Lower

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Messages:
    1,545
    Thanks Received:
    193
    Location:
    Leicestershire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I've been using H&N Barracuda Hunter pellets recently. Its a hollow point pellet and i've found it particularly effective in taking down pigeons. I assume the design means it flattens on impact and its taken the head completely off a couple of pigeons.
     
  16. d000hg

    d000hg

    Joined:
    17 May 2013
    Messages:
    1,339
    Thanks Received:
    19
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Looks actually quite nice although we have the added complication we do not want to kill squirrels - we're in woodland and there a lot of them causing nobody any problems. So positioning traps, especially lethal ones, is important. I like the humane nature though. The lack of any kind of off-switch is a bit worrying, as is the end of the video about eating the rats...!

    I wonder if those are standard CO2 canisters like you use for homebrew, not some weird fitting?

    I happened to watch a Demolition Ranch youtube video about a .50 airgun today, by sheer coincidence. Pretty nice.
     
  17. Brigadier

    Brigadier

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    8,507
    Thanks Received:
    624
    Location:
    Staffordshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It's been almost thirty years since I did my shooting, so this may be myth from the mists of time......

    Hollow points supposedly hit the target, and squashed a small volume of air into it on impact. The expansion of the air caused greater shock in the target, so improving the kill likelihood.
     

Share This Page