And tonights silly...

[SUNRAY]

Rental EICR just been sent to me for a laugh.

... kitchen sockets and boiler fused switch share common earth, not permitted... 543-01-02

Kichen sockets circuit listed as 4mm² singles 20A MCB.
Boiler circuit described as 1.5mm² singles 6A MCB.
The size of the Earth wire is not listed.

Reading my 2008 regs, 543-01-02 describes the size of the shared conductor. The fact it's been sent to me I assume it hasn't changed [much?]

The only other fault is RCD; 150mA 42/46mS
There is a quote for repair which I haven't seen.

 

[ericmark]

543-01-02 Where a protective conductor is common to several circuits, the cross-sectional area of the protective conductor shall be: is from 16th edition, although 17th edition nearly the same 543.01.02.

But the

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

is rather vague, over the years many times I have been given a PIR or an EICR and asked how much to fix that, and I have been unable to find most of the faults listed.

But until the "The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020" it really did not matter, however now we must show how this work has been completed, if there is no fault, how can you show it has been repaired?

 

[sxturbo]

there is no fault, how can you show it has been repaired?

Do you not just prove that there wasn't a fault?

After all you can't fix it if it isn't broken

 

[SUNRAY]

543-01-02 Where a protective conductor is common to several circuits, the cross-sectional area of the protective conductor shall be: is from 16th edition, although 17th edition nearly the same 543.01.02.

But the is rather vague, over the years many times I have been given a PIR or an EICR and asked how much to fix that, and I have been unable to find most of the faults listed.

But until the "The Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020" it really did not matter, however now we must show how this work has been completed, if there is no fault, how can you show it has been repaired?

I only have a copy of 2008 here but I assumed it wouldn't have changed much by the comments from the sender.

My experiences are similar, All that can be done with ficticious faults is write a report showing what inspections and testing were done. The difficulty there is not knowing if the original inspector has seen something that you don't see or find.

I'll find out tomorrow when he goes to have a look at those 2 C2's

 

[SUNRAY]

Do you not just prove that there wasn't a fault?

After all you can't fix it if it isn't broken

Basically yes but you have to be careful how you do that, just incase thereis a problem that you don't find.

 

[ericmark]

The difficulty there is not knowing if the original inspector has seen something that you don't see or find.

And there is often a problem working out exactly what is being reported, we get comments like lack of RCD protection 701.411.3.3 which is additional protection, and linked to 701.415.2 and one thinks what was not bonded? If it simply said bath taps not bonded you would know what he was talking about, but these random regulation numbers really don't help.

 

[SUNRAY]

And there is often a problem working out exactly what is being reported, we get comments like lack of RCD protection 701.411.3.3 which is additional protection, and linked to 701.415.2 and one thinks what was not bonded? If it simply said bath taps not bonded you would know what he was talking about, but these random regulation numbers really don't help.

I helped look at an EICR before Christmas which had been arranged by a rental agent. It was simply full of gibberish and references which didn't apply the words.
3 C1's and something like 20 C2's and 3's.

A couple of days later we went to the property. The very first thing we looked at was lack of main bonding C1. This was a 1st floor property in a block of 12 over 3 floors, the water riser 2" steel in a riser cupboard and each branch ½" steel to a valve, water meter, ½" valve then a plastic valve and from there all plastic triwall. The communal heating system 50mm copper in the riser with branches to the heat meter and nylon pipes from there on. There was a gas meter in a semi buried brown enclosure but then no pipe to the property as there were no gas appliances. All the waste/sewage plastic. That left the electric supply, a 50 or 70mm² from the meter cupboard on the ground floor to earth bar in the riser and 25mm² to the CU. There was nothing else, by that I mean there was nothing else to bond so absolutely no idea why it had any rating let alone a C1.

The other C1's quite justified due to the exposed copper parts of a broken socket, and a damaged cable. Both really easy to fix but the vast majority of the rest simply didn't exist. We decided to do a full EICR then sent copies of both to NICEIC, I don't suppose it will get looked at.

 

[ericmark]

I some times wonder if we need a degree in English? Not electrics. I remember an exam being given, we were all told read the paper fully then return to start answering the questions, and last question said don't bother answering any questions fold your arms and look at teacher.

The point is BS7671 is a very thick book, and is used as a reference book, so we in real terms don't start at the beginning, we jump to bit we think we need.

And I know I have made errors quoting from a section for IT supplies when the supply was TN. Very easy if given 701.411.3.3 to read it and say yes a fail, even when the property does not have a bathroom. So often readers of BS 7671 miss things like "Installations designed after 30st June 2008 are to comply with BS 7671:2008." and similar.

To my mind "obtain written confirmation from a qualified person that the further investigative or remedial work has been carried out and that—" where “qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards; is all well and good when there is a real fault which needs skill to correct.

But a missing blank on a CU and you need an electrician to write out a minor works to replace it?

 

[SUNRAY]

Rental EICR just been sent to me for a laugh.

... kitchen sockets and boiler fused switch share common earth, not permitted... 543-01-02

Kichen sockets circuit listed as 4mm² singles 20A MCB.
Boiler circuit described as 1.5mm² singles 6A MCB.
The size of the Earth wire is not listed.

Reading my 2008 regs, 543-01-02 describes the size of the shared conductor. The fact it's been sent to me I assume it hasn't changed [much?]

The only other fault is RCD; 150mA 42/46mS
There is a quote for repair which I haven't seen.

So the visit was made, not by me, it's a 50's property and originally wired in surface mounted split tube. CU with 3 RCD's in basement 2m directly below one socket with a straight run of tube, the stated 4 and 1.5mm² singles are 2.5 7X and 1.5 7Xmm² with what is assumed to be 3/0.029 bare earth. He pulled in a 2.5mm² replacement and replaced the faulty Merlin RCD.

So realistically it was too small and a good find but incorrectly listed as 'not permitted'.