another shed question........

[syndy]

Hi,

I have been searching around the Internet trying to understand the do's and don'ts' of Part P when it comes to adding power to my shed. Now i feel just more confused than ever, different sites seem to contradict each other. I guess thats one of the problems with the Internet, you cant always believe what you read. Anyhow, I wondered if anyone could comment on a few questions i have so things become clear in my mind? Would really be much appreciated.

I have a detached garage that had power connected end of last year by a sparks who was qualified in Part P. He fitted a new consumer unit in the garage with 2 MCB's powered from the house by a hefty SWA cable going under ground. There is 1 mcb for the lighting and 1 mcb for the power sockets. Now, i have built a shed (12 x 8 feet) 2.7 meters from the back of the garage. Between the garage and the shed is where the bins are stored, fenced but open. So, with regard to part P, what, if anything, can i do to provide power to the shed without having to notify? i do not need to beef up the existing garage wiring and consumer unit as i will be using the tools i used in the garage in the shed instead, the only extra load will be from the light in the shed.

Questions;

I believe i can add a spur to an existing circuit without notification, is that correct?

Can i add two spurs, one from the power circuit in the garage to my shed and the other spur from the lighting circuit in my garage to my shed, without notification? I read there are 'special locations' where all work needs notification and the outdoors comes under that category. But this seems to be more related to outdoor lighting, swimming pools, etc, rather than wiring into a shed. The wiring from the house to the detached garage is already in place, and the consumer unit is fitted. i am only adding a spur.

If this is not notifiable in principle then are the following correct;

I can take twin wire and earth between garage and shed above ground inside 20mm conduit, 2.5mmsq for power socket and 1.5mmsq for lighting. The conduit would fit into terminal box on the garage and shed sealed from the rain and having the cables in one length from spur to socket and spur to light switch.

If i want to bury the cable I need to use SWA cable or some armored conduit. This would need to be buried to a minimal depth of 45cm (18 inches)?

Last 2 questions;

Can i just run the 2.5mmsq cable for the power socket and take a feed off the socket in the shed to feed the light? This would not be any different from having a free standing lamp or inspection light plugged into the socket, although it does feel a bit wrong!?

I did read and cant believe its true, that if the cable to the shed is not hard wired into the garage as a spur and is terminated as a 3 pin plug, then this no longer comes under part p as its not a fixed extension? Sounds odd to me.


i tried to keep it short (unsuccessfully by the look of it!). Many thanks for taking time to read this and thanks in advance if you can help with my questions.

Cheers,

 

[Taylortwocities]

The installation that you have in the garage has been certified and notified to the local authority.
If you add to that, in any way, to extend any sort of power to the shed then that is a new, notifiable activity.
There's no get out of jail free card,

The only thing you could do re power to the shed is buy an extension reel, when you need power to the shed, plug the reel into the garage and reel the cable out to the shed.
When you have finished in the shed, disconnect the extension cable and roll it back up again.

Anything else is fixed wiring and requires all that Part P stuff. Sorry - maybe you should get that electrician back?

 

[syndy]

Hi,

Thanks for the quick reply.

So, would this need to be re notified because the spur is going out of the garage? I could add a spur to the ring within the garage without notification if i understand correctly. Is it then the fact that it goes from one location, outside and back in to another location that makes it notifiable?

Thanks!

 

[aaronjb]

I have this handy since I just looked it up for someone else, but;

Work in 'special locations' is (as I understand it) notifiable, and the regs say:

Detached garages and sheds are not special locations. Work within them is notifiable only if it involves new outdoor wiring.

Running wiring to another building would be new outdoor wiring..

Oh, it also says:

Any new work in, for example, the garden or that involves crossing the garden is notifiable.

 

[Taylortwocities]

So, would this need to be re notified because the spur is going out of the garage?

Modifying the circuit (eg adding a spur or another light) inside the detached garage is not notifiable.
BUT
What you want to do is OUTSIDE the detached garage.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But it's inside the shed, and therefore is not an outdoor lighting or electric power installation.

I'd argue strongly that this is another instance of the Approved Document taking it upon itself to contradict the law, this time to the detriment of people hoping not to notify. Maybe they think that averages out the examples where they get it wrong in the other direction....

BUT - I would also say that taking power to the shed does require you to know what you're doing, how to select and install the right cables, and how to test the work when done, so for those reasons using an electrician might be best.

 

[aaronjb]

In this case it does at least say that 'any work that involves crossing the garden is notifiable' explicitly; and I can't think how else you'd get from one detached building to the other

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The Approved Document says that.

That's not what the law says.

 

[aaronjb]

Aha, thanks for the clarification (and I'll take the big bold type as a hint to stop posting on subjects I'm not qualified on!)

 

[ericmark]

OK we all know you don't want to notify. We also expect you will not notify even if you should. So why bother asking? I think BAS has the right approach, never mind if required the question you need to ask is.
1. Are you likely to be asked for the competition document?
2. Have you the skill and equipment to complete the job yourself.

As to 1. likely you will not have a problem unless the answer to 2. is no.

If you don't have the skill then some one may get injured. This is the point where it all goes wrong. The fact that some one is injured proves you were not competent even if before the accident you may have been considered as competent. You have to prove you took all reasonable measures. You will be asked for the installation certificate which you will need to complete regardless of is notifiable or not.

To complete the installation certificate you need to calculate or measure the loop impedances. In most cases this means measure.

To measure you need instruments and even to hire will likely cost around £75. There is no way to test a RCD other than use an instrument. No one can measure 40ms with a stop watch.

It is all well and good putting the probes of the meter on the supply and pressing the button. Reading what the meter says and copying onto certificate easy. But does it pass? No good recording 1.5 ohms impedance and putting it down if the reading required is 1.44 ohms. All you have done is prove you didn't know what you were doing.

Even electricians make mistakes. But one hope the electrician has insurance so at least he will not be paying compensation to some one for rest of his life.

May be you will be lucky and they die! As least then there is a limit to what you need to pay out.

So down to nitty gritty. If you really know how to inspect and test and can complete the installation certificate available as free down load on IET site and have the equipment to do these tests then likely nothing will ever go wrong and you will never be brought to task for not having a completion certificate. However if you can't comply then you would be silly to take the chance that nothing will ever go wrong.

 

[syndy]

Hi All,

Just wanted to thank you all for taking time to respond to my question, it is much appreciated.

The post was to find out if notification was need or not, if I had no intention of engaging an electrician or notifying i would not have posted in the first place. I cant make an informed decision without knowing the facts and thanks to all your input i am now in a position to decide how to progress from here. Part p or not, as has been mentioned, its doing the job right and implementing it safely that counts. However, when it comes to selling up, having the correct paperwork in place suddenly becomes quite important

Thanks again, i have taken onboard all your comments and value your opinions.

Cheers.