Architect or Builder?

[NiteOwl]

I just joined DIYnot.com so apologies if I have posted this in the wrong forum. My query relates to a home extension that my wife and I have decided to do to accommodate our growing family (plus it’s cheaper than moving!).

The plan is to build a two storey extension to the side of the house to create a 4th bedroom above the garage and extended bathroom. In addition to this, we plan a single storey extension to the rear of the house to give us an open plan kitchen, dinning room and family room, as well as a ground floor WC and Laundry room.

I have already had a few building contractors round to give me a ball park figure for the build; two of which have their own in-house/subcontracted architects who they suggest can complete the drawing for submission to planning & building regs.

The build looks to be coming in at £60-£70k, at this price my question is, do I employ an independent architect to help translate our ideas into a well designed and value added layout with the added service to help manage the project/builder. Then with these detail plans approved then look at soliciting a building contractor.

Or do I trust that the building contractor’s architects are sufficient to deliver me a bespoke solution and not just a safe design to comply and pass planning and building regs and provide uncomplicated build for the contractor?


I do not see this as a trust factor, but about getting the best solution for our money as this is as much about (If not more so), creating a family space as well as increasing the value of our investment.


Anybody’s advice or sharing of past experience will really help us at this stage.

 

[Shytalkz]

If you use an independent architect/plan drawer, then you can get prices from different contractors all on the same basis; the danger of asking contractors to give prices without a set of drawings is that it is impossible to compare like for like and what one includes another one won't.

Get your plans done, then get all necessary approvals (or at least planning), then get some prices.

 

[^woody^]

Depending on your property type, then options may be limited unless you are going into grand design territory.

A first floor side extension with a knock-through off the stairs or landing, and a rear kitchen extension with a couple of beams to enlarge the kitchen are going to be pretty standard for anyone preparing the drawings.

So whether you go with one or the other may not make much difference.

What should happen, is that the designer asks you what you want, what you want to achieve and how you will use the new space. Then he should translate this into a design with meets your needs, is likely to satisfy the planners, and not only can be built, but built economically.

Unless you do have an atypical house, then I don't know what one designer can do over another in terms of design.

If the builders know the designer, then that can avoid problems later on. Some designers may take the easy way out and let the builder determine the finer points. Others designers may do a comprehensive set of drawings which not only passes b/regs but leaves nothing to interpretation for the builder - so you get no "well I had to do this and that which was not on the plans - and it will cost you £2000 more"

You really want some comparable quotes from the designers, and to listen to what they say in terms of what is possible, and suitable for you. There may be some planning constraints which could affect what you can do and this is one of the first things you want clarifying

Your figures of £60-70k seem rather high. Is this a really big extension, or with some extravagant internal fit-out? I'd have thought more in the £40-50k bracket for a standard extension like this one

 

[NiteOwl]

Thanks for the advice,

We are not trying to get any designer awards or win 'Britain’s best home' but want to make sure that we get some professional direction in addition to our own ideas.

I think from the advice I have received here, I will go with an architect to complete a set of drawings and solicit quotes from builders once I am armed with planning approved drawings.

I think the more detailed the better as this leaves little to chance or the builders’ interpretation.

The cost I have quoted for the extension is the highest guessimate I have received from some builders’ I have had over to quote so far- I will take your comments as a cautionary warning!

Have received a quote for drawings; please let me know if this looks right to you.

Quote:
The cost for the planning permission and building regulations application is £750.00.
-cost to produce one drawing suitable for both (planning and regs), with 7 copies. The cost includes the site plan at 1:500 scale and the location plan at 1:1250 scale. The building work is fully specified to meet the criteria of building regulations.

Depending upon the nature of the work the there might be a requirement to provide structural calculations. This will incur an additional cost of £250.00. If needed this will be requested by the building control after the application is made

The process is as follows:

Survey property (measure inside & outside, mark drains/drainage)



Consult with a planning officer with outline proposal of your wishes.



Produce drawing and confirm that it satisfies your requirements.



Get drawing plotted and copied, submit planning and building regs forms with other necessary documentation.

-cost for submitting the plans is: £150.00 for planning application and £130.00 to submit to building control.
- leaving a balance of £470.00 for my work and the cost of the block plans and printing
- Drawing take less than a fortnight but the planning permission will be 6 to 8 weeks.

 

[^woody^]

£470 for doing the drawings is very cheap.

If this guy is doing one drawing for both planning and b/regs, then at a guess these will be a standard template with some items changed to suit your property. Nothing wrong with that, but just make sure that the design suits you and not the designers template.

The designer should know if calculations are required or not (or likely to be) when he does the design, and not wait for building control to ask for them - after all he's designing it!. Calcs will typically be for any steel beams required (ie when you open up the kitchen) and ask if the figure quoted is per beam or per opening.

Don't forget the building control site inspection fee which will be another £400-500 depending on floor area

Also clarify if there are seven copies of the plans for you or seven in total - as the council will require six of them unless he submits online

And clarify if there are charges for amendments requested by the council

 

[NiteOwl]

Cheers Woody, I will investigate the points you raised and post my findings.

 

[NiteOwl]

Hi Woody,

I contacted the architect regarding the points you raised and received the following responses.

Thanks a million for your help!



[Calcs will typically be for any steel beams required (ie when you open up the kitchen) and ask if the figure quoted is per beam or per opening.
]
-Told this is a one off cost if requested.

[Also clarify if there are seven copies of the plans for you or seven in total - as the council will require six of them unless he submits online]

-get 1 plot & 7 copies. 5 of these will be used for the planning permission and building regulations application.

[And clarify if there are charges for amendments requested by the council]

- no charge for amendments

[Don't forget the building control site inspection fee which will be another £400-500 depending on floor area
]

answer given: There is a site inspection fee, there will be a number of visits made at key stages of the build. It is likely to be £445.00 payable by you to the council , details are available on-line at:

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media?MEDIA_ID=179763