Are these lintels safe?

[Heather2011]

Hi,

I'm having an extension done. At the moment, the oversite work has just started. The brick layer laid a few concrete lintels over the concrete blocks to bridge over a couple drainage pipes. Where the lintel is too short to cover the opening, he put down some old reclaimed face bricks to support it. As these bricks are very soft (birds love pecking them!), I'm not sure if they can support the weight of the wall (single floor extension). I hope I'm just over concious but the thought of the lintel calapsing in the future scares me a bit. Would really appreciate any thoughts there.

1. A corner of the concrete block has been cut to allow room for the drainage pipe and the lintel sits on the remaining part.

Lintel over concrete block

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

A corner of the concrete block has been cut to allow room for the drainage pipe and the lintel...

2. the lintel sits on a old reclaimed brick which is soft and fragile.

Lintel over brick

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

the lintel sits on a old reclaimed brick which is soft and fragile.

3. Same brick as above but picture taken from the other side. As you can see, the brick is much thinner than the lintel.

Lintel over brick - from the other side

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

Same brick as above but picture taken from the other side. As you can see, the brick is much...

4. Lintel sits on a small corner of a concrete block and a brick (can't bee seen easily in the picture) which is much thinner than the lintel.

Lintel over brick and block

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

Lintel sits on a small corner of a concrete block and a brick (can't bee seen easily in the...

 

[tony1851]

From what we can see from the photos, the workmanship doesn't look fantastic, but that doesn't mean to say that the thing is going to collapse, particularly as the gap for the pipe is not very wide.

If you are bothered about it, why not phone the Buiding Inspector, put your concerns to him and see if he would come out to check it (they are supposed to check drains anyway). If it needs re-doing, it's perhaps better for you that the builder/bricklayer hears it direct from an official.

 

[Heather2011]

Thanks Tony, yeah, I think it's a good idea to get the building inspector checked. In terms of the workmanship, I agree it's not the best. In fact, I was a bit suprised when I first saw it. Comparing to his previous work which I have seen and looked fantastic, it does look a bit 'untidy'. I haven't been able to catch up with him but I'm hoping that it's because these are not face brickwork so maybe he didn't may much attention on the finish.

 

[theoldun]

Very poor workmanship, even for footings.
Pipe should be bedded on shingle.
Should be 50mm clearance round sides and top of pipe and filled with compressible material with the opening masked both sides with rigid sheet material.
Lintels not long enough and insufficient bearing
Can not see from photos, but rockers each side of pipe passing through cavity wall would not come amiss.
There again , we should never criticise what is possibly an unfinished job, and in all probability may support the brickwork above.
Not our way of working though.
Regards oldun

 

[masona]

Should've put a bigger lintel in, not good workmanship, I wouldn't be happy with it specially a possibility a damaged drain in the future which will be expensive to put right so as mentioned above posts ring the building inspector for their advice because they will have to sign the job off, do it asap. Unless it's temporary to move the drain in the middle maybe?

 

[Heather2011]

Re the drainage pipe, I thought the same as you but the builder said it fine and we arranged building inspector to check it for assurance. He advised that it's ok in our case not to bedded in shingle or wrapped in compressible material. as the pipe doesn't go through the concrete foundation.

Should I be worried?

 

[Heather2011]

Should've put a bigger lintel in, not good workmanship, I wouldn't be happy with it specially a possibility a damaged drain in the future which will be expensive to put right so as mentioned above posts ring the building inspector for their advice because they will have to sign the job off, do it asap. Unless it's temporary to move the drain in the middle maybe?

One of the pipe will be dis-used but the other one is permanent.

 

[^woody^]

It is crap.

Get the builder to put some 75mm stainless steel expanded metal mesh in the bed joint above the lintel, and then two course above that. Length should be 300mm past the opening on each side so about 1200mm in total

And keep your eye on the next bit of work he does

 

[tony1851]

theoldun and masona have both pointed out to you where the workmanship could be better. At the very least, the lintels should be longer. This often happens when the drain passes through the wall at an angle; brickies often mis-judge the width of the gap, which can be quite wide, paticularly when you allow for an adequate bearing of the lintel at each end.
If you look up the manufacturers details on these lintels, you will see that they should have a minimum bearing of 4" to be effective.
As mentioned before, put your concerns to the Inspector, and follow this up with an e-mail to him of the pics. In this way, you are drawing the Council's attention to a potential problem, and they are then more likely to play safe and get the builder to do it properly.
Remember that the Inspector is not a clerk of works or a project manager, and many people have mistaken ideas of what the Inspector can do. However, they have to apply the Regulations 'in so far as they affect health and safety' and I would certainly say that possible faulty support of masonry over a drain could turn out to be a health issue.

 

[tony1851]

It is crap.

Get the builder to put some 75mm stainless steel expanded metal mesh in the bed joint above the lintel, and then two course above that. Length should be 300mm past the opening on each side so about 1200mm in total

Why try and make the best of a poor job? As the job's not too far up, what's wrong with a couple of replacement (longer) lintels?

 

[^woody^]

Because mesh is a viable solution to suit the builder and suit the OP.

It is acknowledged that it is a bad job, so rather than make the situation worse, and generate more bad feeling, if the builder had to alter the walls, it is better to propose a workable solution for both parties

And then move on with the builder knowing that his work is being scrutinised in future

 

[tony1851]

rather than make the situation worse, and generate more bad feeling,

Porches aside, I do agree with that; some clients are constantly on the builder's back and that doesn't necessarily result in a good job. This is why I suggested that the OP try to get b.c. to speak to the builder rather than tackle him personally about it. That way the OP keeps their head below the parapet, so to speak.

 

[Heather2011]

Thanks for all the thoughts, exactly what I needed. I'll arrange to meet up with the building inspector asap and see what he says about the lintel.

As for the drainage pipes, what is the easiest and most necessary remedy, consider that the pipe has been laid and partly buried? Below are a few pictures which shows the drainage pipe position.

When I spoke to the building inspector last time (on the phone), he's ok with how they are laid. But with all the advise here and my own doubts, I think it's worth getting him to check it on site for reassurance.

1. Drainage pipe - the end to the left is a temporary connection which will be disused and the end to the right is a new connection. This part of the drainage pipe still has a little gap from the ground.

Untitled

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

2. Drainage pipe - the part through the wall

Untitled

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 2

2. Overall extension - drainage pipe in the middle left part of the picture

Untitled

• Heather2011
• 8 Apr 2012
• 1

 

[theoldun]

It is crap.

Get the builder to put some 75mm stainless steel expanded metal mesh in the bed joint above the lintel, and then two course above that. Length should be 300mm past the opening on each side so about 1200mm in total

So why compromise?

Because mesh is a viable solution to suit the builder and suit the OP.

It is acknowledged that it is a bad job, so rather than make the situation worse, and generate more bad feeling, if the builder had to alter the walls, it is better to propose a workable solution for both parties

And then move on with the builder knowing that his work is being scrutinised in future

Yes it is a viable for the builder to use coil mesh to get out of the proverbial, but why should the OP have to start to compromise on bad workmanship so early in the game. Would you Woody? We very much doubt it. However if BC are happy, no point anyone here saying any more.
Regards oldun

 

[theoldun]

Very poor workmanship, even for footings.
Pipe should be bedded on shingle.
Should be 50mm clearance round sides and top of pipe and filled with compressible material with the opening masked both sides with rigid sheet material.
Lintels not long enough and insufficient bearing
Can not see from photos, but rockers each side of pipe passing through cavity wall would not come amiss.
There again , we should never criticise what is possibly an unfinished job, and in all probability may support the brickwork above.
Not our way of working though.
Regards oldun

Just seen your last post.
We stand by the above, plus pipes laid in oversite need bedding and surrounding with shingle before sub base unless he is using block and beam.which we doubt as his block work is to high for FFL. Nom 10mm stone is classed as a compressible material. Let BC decide? Have dealt with that outfit out your way before?
Regards oldun