Are these the emperor's new clothes - thermodynamic panels

[ajstoneservices]

Great replies - thanks,

I think i need to re-read all the above after some sleep!

I'd like to reduce co2, but the reality is monthly bills, so will keep thinking. Ref. the replies re: rhi, are we saying it's gonna add significantly to my reasons for choosing pv solar? I guess there might be no money left though, as i need to buy a primary system first....

After you have insulated your home to a high degree, have energy saving appliances and you have the money.

 

[andy123456789012]

A company website without a contact address, just an email and phone number....shoddy.

Website http://www.energie-solar.co.uk/index.html

From companies house - webcheck
ENERGIE SOLAR LTD.
TOUCAN HIRE SERVICES LTD
HAVERS ROAD
NORWICH
NORFOLK
NR3 2DU
Company No. 06026331

Energie solar is listed below with the address above and the phone number and email of the website so its the same company but maybe they don't want you to know their address? Who knows?

http://www.solarserver.de/branche/i_solarthermie-e.html

 

[JonFreeman]

I've been in the solar game for some years now and I've not seen this system before. I want a lot more information before being able to say for certain but, I wouldn't buy it, their sales pitch that is

Yes we are a proper company and we are not hiding!

We were at Ecobiuld in Feb 2008 where we had a brilliant reception and then the building industry went into recession so we mothballed the company.

We have several installation’s in the UK with our main one near Norwich which has been running very successfully for over three years now returning an average COP of 4 over that period with the lowest point being 2.3 during a VERY cold snap. Climacheck has independently monitored this and we now have about 3 full years worth of data.

You are more than welcome to call me (Jon) at Toucan to arrange a chat/visit and we are sorry that we appear to be fraudsters - far from it!

The system is based on an inside out fridge using tried and trusted compressors that circulate refrigerant (R134a for hot water & R407c for heating) to the passive panel/panels on the roof where the refrigerant gives off it's cold, collecting heat in the process. This then comes back to the compressor where the gas is squeezed back into a liquid giving off all the heat it has collected.

The system operates efficiently down to -2 Deg Cel and the only moving part is the compressor and as we all know, these are very reliable. We estimate that during the day the system is getting approximately 80% energy from the Carnot cycle and 20% from the sun striking the panel.

I hope that clarifies our position at the present time and here is to a better new year!

Cheers, Jon

 

[seans]

These systems really work well. Compared to thermal solar that are being fitted a lot in the UK.

They are relatively new to the uk but have been around for years. They do work at night and even when ice and snow is on the panels.

I saw them in Spain a few years back and installed one at home earlier this year in February. We have found it to be superb and it has provided all of the hot water for the family.

We are over the moon with the system..

Only problem was I fitted it myself, I am a refrigeration engineer specialising in air con but as I am not MCS approved I cant get the RHI premium payment or the phase 2 payments that are due to come in next year.

I dont think that is fair as I have all the qualifications required to install it and a lot more besides..!

For anyone thinking of thermal solar take a good look at thermodynamic solar panels, you wont be sorry.

 

[mysteryman]

The concerns about sound levels with air source heat pumps are due to the fan noise levels outside. This would not apply to wet systems such as ground source or these particular solar panels.

Pellet burners are the only wood burners which burn cleanly, because the air/fuel ratio is carefully controlled. They are about as controllable and require about the same attention as oil boilers. The pellet feed equipment can add quite a lot to the installation cost, it depends upon how far the pellets have to be delivered from store to boiler.

Log burner firing rate can only be controlled by air dampers. This causes imperfect combustion and poorer efficiency due to unburned volatiles in the flue gas, tar deposits etc.

The best way to reduce fuel bills is to improve insulation, if you can.

 

[dcawkwell]

Don't know the principle whether it is a refrigerant or fluid going through
the panels. Looks like a similar principle to ground source but through panels so similar to air source.

I'll eat my hat if this can heat your home at 0 degree outside.

Best solution for you is air source with gas boiler as a booster in very cold periods.

 

[dcawkwell]

The concerns about sound levels with air source heat pumps are due to the fan noise levels outside. This would not apply to wet systems such as ground source or these particular solar panels.

Pellet burners are the only wood burners which burn cleanly, because the air/fuel ratio is carefully controlled. They are about as controllable and require about the same attention as oil boilers. The pellet feed equipment can add quite a lot to the installation cost, it depends upon how far the pellets have to be delivered from store to boiler.

Log burner firing rate can only be controlled by air dampers. This causes imperfect combustion and poorer efficiency due to unburned volatiles in the flue gas, tar deposits etc.

The best way to reduce fuel bills is to improve insulation, if you can.

Just the same as an air con unit. I have 3 and aren't bothered by the noise. As I am inside and the noise is outside. It is just a quiet humming fan.

 

[DeltaT2]

With the RHI being introduce next year solar thermal will be a solid investment.

I'm looking forward to it nearly as much as that hole in my head I got last year. All our bills will go up because we're being forced to pay inflated prices for the least cost effective renewable technologies Solar photovoltaic in particular offers a phenomenally high feed in tariff.

The FIT for PV solar is dropping again in August, mind you it's been a great scam while it lasted...........
All these ugly panels covering roofs & the Government & the power companies getting Joe Public to desecrate the look of their home with the promise of some dosh. And open season for the Greenwash used Car Salesmen, many mugs near us took part in this 'ponzi scheme', and had panels & invertors fitted that will break down before they have paid for them.
Greed is an awful human failing..............

How long will it be before all these RHI & FITs will be cancelled?? Soon, is my guess, when more hospital beds are needed, that's when the axe will fall.

 

[DeltaT2]

I've been in the solar game for some years now and I've not seen this system before. I want a lot more information before being able to say for certain but, I wouldn't buy it, their sales pitch that is

Yes we are a proper company and we are not hiding!

We were at Ecobiuld in Feb 2008 where we had a brilliant reception and then the building industry went into recession so we mothballed the company.

We have several installation’s in the UK with our main one near Norwich which has been running very successfully for over three years now returning an average COP of 4 over that period with the lowest point being 2.3 during a VERY cold snap. Climacheck has independently monitored this and we now have about 3 full years worth of data.

You are more than welcome to call me (Jon) at Toucan to arrange a chat/visit and we are sorry that we appear to be fraudsters - far from it!

The system is based on an inside out fridge using tried and trusted compressors that circulate refrigerant (R134a for hot water & R407c for heating) to the passive panel/panels on the roof where the refrigerant gives off it's cold, collecting heat in the process. This then comes back to the compressor where the gas is squeezed back into a liquid giving off all the heat it has collected.

The system operates efficiently down to -2 Deg Cel and the only moving part is the compressor and as we all know, these are very reliable. We estimate that during the day the system is getting approximately 80% energy from the Carnot cycle and 20% from the sun striking the panel.

I hope that clarifies our position at the present time and here is to a better new year!

Cheers, Jon

Thanks Jon, you have been very upfront regarding the system. What does concern me a little is the short warranty you've given on the compressor, can you give a little more detail about that component; invertor, scroll, what type is used??

 

[DeltaT2]

These systems really work well. Compared to thermal solar that are being fitted a lot in the UK.

They are relatively new to the uk but have been around for years. They do work at night and even when ice and snow is on the panels.

I saw them in Spain a few years back and installed one at home earlier this year in February. We have found it to be superb and it has provided all of the hot water for the family.

We are over the moon with the system..

Only problem was I fitted it myself, I am a refrigeration engineer specialising in air con but as I am not MCS approved I cant get the RHI premium payment or the phase 2 payments that are due to come in next year.

I dont think that is fair as I have all the qualifications required to install it and a lot more besides..!

For anyone thinking of thermal solar take a good look at thermodynamic solar panels, you wont be sorry.

Are you a mate of Jon??

Mate, I'd not bother with MCS anyway, it's not worth the 1/2 day assessment - it's a joke. Two years from now there'll be no MCS anyway.

 

[seans]

Are you a mate of Jon??

Mate, I'd not bother with MCS anyway, it's not worth the 1/2 day assessment - it's a joke. Two years from now there'll be no MCS anyway.

No, I am not a mate of Jon's

As to the MCS I understand that there is a £300 pound one of payment and there will be an annual payment for 20 years of about £300 or £400 which is a sickner as I missed the FIT altogether so would have been nice to get a little something back, considering that I am paying for it anyways ;-(

 

[DeltaT2]

In Scotland for split unit heat pumps, which this is, it's a one-of payment of £850, that's it no FIT etc etc

Now your £850 will soon be spent when the temperatures hit <0 ° C. Like most Winters here in Scotland. Just watch that meter spin when it's -14 for a couple of weeks, like the last three Winters here............

 

[Agile]

I am concerned by the short warrantee given on any heat pump system.

Surely if the makers expected them to be reliable they would have at least 3-5 years?

Tony

 

[Norcon]

Log burner firing rate can only be controlled by air dampers.

Wrong!
Many are fan assisted with the fan turning on to increase firing rate and off to lower firing rate.
Many are also fitted with lambda sensors to control the firing rate very precisely. The technology is on a par with gas boilers or any fossil fuel boiler and more advanced in many cases.
You should get up to speed on the technology and you wouldn't post duff advice mysteryman.

 

[Agile]

Wrong!

Many are fan assisted with the fan turning on to increase firing rate and off to lower firing rate.

You should get up to speed on the technology and you wouldn't post duff advice mysteryman.

But MM only refers to the Viessmann range of equipment!