From 2004. Over a Decade ago. Makes for interesting reading.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/why-i-became-a-gas-fitter-7291842.html
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/why-i-became-a-gas-fitter-7291842.html
Baxi 80e Combi Boiler. Leaking Pressure Gauge
- Thread starter migrantwing
- Start date
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Right, it is plainly obvious that most people who have responded do have the intelligence to read something and come to the same correct conclusion.
Lets just try this for a second.
Conclusion:
You are not running a business, you have zero overheads for said non business and you are not declaring any of this income regardless of it being "mates rates"
Conclusion:
You are still working cash in hand and not declaring any income. You are either lying in your previous quote as if you were shafted by your emloyees then you were running a business or you meant employers and one then has to wonder why you were "shafted" by your last 3 or 4 employers? (I'd also add that I would be 100% sure how many had screwed me not a guess)
Conclusion:
You work in a trade yourself so surely you know how things work and discuss things with your clients before hand and not just give them a huge bill? You are either not so good at your job or need to understand how any company, whether you own it or just work for it, actually manages to run day in day out. You watch too much TV and believe everything that the media throws at you. You believe that we are all on £150k a year and every penny goes straight in our pockets.
And yes we have come across them before. We tend to refer to them as customers. (just the once though) and apparently it wouldn't make such great TV having Dom knocking on a customers door asking for payment for the guy who has done a great job, has bills to pay and can't get payment from them as the HP on the Merc has to be paid!
Conclusion:
Again you still don't understand the principles of business and running one of your own. If we work out REAL hours on the job a lot of us would be close to minimum wage! You believe that we do 4 hours work a day and have Fridays off and all the work magically appears.
Conclusion:
Again no business acumen. It's not the size of the jobs it's having the continuity of work.
Conclusion:
STILL not understanding how a business has to function. You are still thinking as an employee even though you have no employer.
Yes we all have bills and costs to pay but.... as a business owner BEFORE I can think about paying all the bills that we all share eg:
Mortgage,
house insurance,
contents insurance, car insurance on 2 vehicles,
council tax,
gas,
water,
electric,
TV licence,
Internet,
Sky,
4 mobile phone bills,
car tax on 2 vehicles,
clothing for 4 people,
food and drink etc etc
This is without saving for our childrens futures, putting them in cars, uni, houses and still no holiday that most employed people enjoy.
BEFORE all of these I have to consider my operational costs. Such as:
Van purchase every 3 years,
Van insurance,
Fuel,
Tax,
NI,
Public Liability Insurance,
Public Indemnity Insurance,
Tool Insurance,
Marketing Budget,
Training Budget,
Yearly Memberships,
IT allowance per year,
Tool allowance per year,
Stock allowance per year,
Sick pay pot,
Holiday pay pot,
Phone bill x 2
15 - 20 hours per week "free labour"
There is probably loads that I have missed of of both lists but the point is that even as a sole trader my yearly operation costs are just shy of £15k before I even think about having to have anything to pay bills with. Thats £300 a week just to stay in business and have a job so I can earn a wage.
An employee has none of that and what they earn ends up in their pockets and just can't see that what we earn doesn't! Go to work tomorrow and ask you bosses how much it costs the company you work for to just operate.
Working at B+Q would save me at least £15k a year. Fixed hours and none of this BS day in day out. I'd sign up tomorrow but it would mean that I didn't get to do what I enjoy for a living and also actually save lives on a pretty much daily basis.
So how were my conclusions?
I'll see how many people that actually work for themselves see any similarities to them.
Jon
@AGAS @dilalio @durhamplumber @Gaswizard @PullerGas @Dan Robinson @ianmcd @Agile @DP
@Aquaheat
Conclusion:
You are not running a business, you have zero overheads for said non business and you are not declaring any of this income regardless of it being "mates rates"
1: I haven't hit my tax quota this year. Before this work came up, I had nothing of worth on.
Conclusion:
You are still working cash in hand and not declaring any income. You are either lying in your previous quote as if you were shafted by your emloyees then you were running a business or you meant employers and one then has to wonder why you were "shafted" by your last 3 or 4 employers? (I'd also add that I would be 100% sure how many had screwed me not a guess)
It was a typo, I meant to say 'employers'.
1: Went for a warehouse job at a large, well renowned window installation company. Had the interview, got the job, was shown around the warehouse, pay was discussed, hours etc. Started the next day...there was no warehouse position. The actual job was door to door cold calling. For the first week I was to get paid £50 plus commission, the next week £40 plus commission, the next week £30 plus commission et al. The first day I spent more than I'd earned, walking around the streets in crap weather, having to buy food, drink etc, then having to get a bus back to the company which cost around £5. I stuck it for a week. I was lied to about the job, the money etc. It wasn't anything that I thought it was. Had I known that it was a cold calling position I wouldn't have gone for the job in the first place. After endless calls I never got the £50 they owed me. I used to work for a DG company when I was in my teens. Cold calling is not a favourable job. I knew that even back then, 20 plus years ago.
2: Bumped into a friend in town, told him I was looking for work. He told me of a job at, again, a large well renowned store. He said that there was a warehouse position as the previous warehouse manager had handed the keys in and quit. Went for the interview, got the job blah blah blah. Worked there for two weeks and was non the wiser, until one morning I walked in and the old warehouse manager was there. When asking what had happened after being told that he had quit, he said, "No, I went on holiday for two weeks, that's all". My hours then dropped from 40+ to 12 hours per week. Once again, I was lied to, had an asshole for a manager and was put on crap shifts, late nights and weekends, all for 12 hours per week. They messed my pay up so many times that I confronted the management and phoned head office in their presence. Things came to a head when it was obvious that they wanted me out as they didn't really want to employ me after I had filled a vacancy whilst their warehouse manager was on holiday. Head office finally got back to me after I quit and told me that all money owed would be in my bank by the end of the week and that the manager and assistant manager had been excluded from the company for wrongful employment/misleading information regards the job position and also told me that there had been numerous rumours of bad management from employees and customers alike. I finally got the money I was owed but never saw a penny of my bonus I had apparently earned and was entitled to.
3: Worked for yet another large, well renowned fuel company. All started well then ended up carrying most of my fellow employees. Wasn't allowed time off when I required it, but was expected to work shifts to cover others. Again, once I had covered people who were off sick or on holiday, my average monthly wage dropped from around £1200 to £400 in the space of a few weeks. I had a personal confrontation with a group of chav's at work. I calmed the situation down but was intimidated every time they came in to my workplace for fuel. I asked my manageress to move me to my local depot, but she was reluctant. One day, my girlfriend picked me up from work and the chav's, along with a few friends followed my girlfriend and myself home. I got out of the car, confronted them and they drove off shouting obscenities and threats. I told my manageress about the incident, and that it was now involving my girlfriend and I feared for her safety, more so than mine. She would not move me to a different site.
I then caught wind that they were going to sign over the site to another company, so we were to lose our jobs at Christmas, regardless. I called my area manager and told him what was going on and for him to please override my manageress and move me to the site nearer home. He wasn't bothered either. I told my manageress that I was in danger, and that my girlfriend, having played no part in this altercation was being targeted. They told me that the best thing to do was to quit my job if I didn't feel safe. I took my uniform and work property back to work and waited for my last monthly wage (which only worked out to about a weeks money). I never received the money that was owed. I called head office and they said that they weren't my direct employers and that I would have to take the matter up with my manageress or area manager as they were not directly linked to the company as it was a franchise. I was then informed that one piece of my uniform was missing (a jacket) and that I wouldn't get paid until I had returned it. There was not one item of their property I had kept. That was over 12 months ago and I have not yet been paid. I can write than one off.
So, yes. My last three employers, and quite possibly the one before that have screwed me over in some way. I can't remember the timeline for jobs as it's over a few years ago.
Conclusion:
Again you still don't understand the principles of business and running one of your own. If we work out REAL hours on the job a lot of us would be close to minimum wage! You believe that we do 4 hours work a day and have Fridays off and all the work magically appears.
No, I don't understand the principles of running a business, as I've never ran a business. I also never said or thought that you work 4 hours per day.
Conclusion:
Again no business acumen. It's not the size of the jobs it's having the continuity of work.
See above reply.
I would have thought you would have regular work on, no matter how large or small the specific job is. How am I to know that?
Conclusion:
STILL not understanding how a business has to function. You are still thinking as an employee even though you have no employer.
Again, see above reply. I DO NOT know how a business functions as I have never ran a business. I obviously know that there are costs involved, as you have listed.
Yes we all have bills and costs to pay but.... as a business owner BEFORE I can think about paying all the bills that we all share eg:
Mortgage,
house insurance,
contents insurance, car insurance on 2 vehicles,
council tax....
This is without saving for our childrens futures, putting them in cars, uni, houses and still no holiday that most employed people enjoy.
BEFORE all of these I have to consider my operational costs. Such as:
Van purchase every 3 years,
Van insurance,
Fuel,
Tax,
NI,
Public Liability Insurance,
Public Indemnity Insurance....
There is probably loads that I have missed of of both lists but the point is that even as a sole trader my yearly operation costs are just shy of £15k before I even think about having to have anything to pay bills with. Thats £300 a week just to stay in business and have a job so I can earn a wage.
An employee has none of that and what they earn ends up in their pockets and just can't see that what we earn doesn't! Go to work tomorrow and ask you bosses how much it costs the company you work for to just operate.
Working at B+Q would save me at least £15k a year. Fixed hours and none of this BS day in day out. I'd sign up tomorrow but it would mean that I didn't get to do what I enjoy for a living and also actually save lives on a pretty much daily basis.
So how were my conclusions?
That was a very informative and lengthy reply. I would just like to say that, although not completely ignorant of the cost of being self employed and running a business, I know that it's not easy (as you have quite clearly shown and stated, which I appreciate).
I would like to thank you for your information. Now I know a bit more about you, and running a business.
Conclusion:
You are not running a business, you have zero overheads for said non business and you are not declaring any of this income regardless of it being "mates rates"
1: I haven't hit my tax quota this year. Before this work came up, I had nothing of worth on.
Conclusion:
You are still working cash in hand and not declaring any income. You are either lying in your previous quote as if you were shafted by your emloyees then you were running a business or you meant employers and one then has to wonder why you were "shafted" by your last 3 or 4 employers? (I'd also add that I would be 100% sure how many had screwed me not a guess)
It was a typo, I meant to say 'employers'.
1: Went for a warehouse job at a large, well renowned window installation company. Had the interview, got the job, was shown around the warehouse, pay was discussed, hours etc. Started the next day...there was no warehouse position. The actual job was door to door cold calling. For the first week I was to get paid £50 plus commission, the next week £40 plus commission, the next week £30 plus commission et al. The first day I spent more than I'd earned, walking around the streets in crap weather, having to buy food, drink etc, then having to get a bus back to the company which cost around £5. I stuck it for a week. I was lied to about the job, the money etc. It wasn't anything that I thought it was. Had I known that it was a cold calling position I wouldn't have gone for the job in the first place. After endless calls I never got the £50 they owed me. I used to work for a DG company when I was in my teens. Cold calling is not a favourable job. I knew that even back then, 20 plus years ago.
2: Bumped into a friend in town, told him I was looking for work. He told me of a job at, again, a large well renowned store. He said that there was a warehouse position as the previous warehouse manager had handed the keys in and quit. Went for the interview, got the job blah blah blah. Worked there for two weeks and was non the wiser, until one morning I walked in and the old warehouse manager was there. When asking what had happened after being told that he had quit, he said, "No, I went on holiday for two weeks, that's all". My hours then dropped from 40+ to 12 hours per week. Once again, I was lied to, had an asshole for a manager and was put on crap shifts, late nights and weekends, all for 12 hours per week. They messed my pay up so many times that I confronted the management and phoned head office in their presence. Things came to a head when it was obvious that they wanted me out as they didn't really want to employ me after I had filled a vacancy whilst their warehouse manager was on holiday. Head office finally got back to me after I quit and told me that all money owed would be in my bank by the end of the week and that the manager and assistant manager had been excluded from the company for wrongful employment/misleading information regards the job position and also told me that there had been numerous rumours of bad management from employees and customers alike. I finally got the money I was owed but never saw a penny of my bonus I had apparently earned and was entitled to.
3: Worked for yet another large, well renowned fuel company. All started well then ended up carrying most of my fellow employees. Wasn't allowed time off when I required it, but was expected to work shifts to cover others. Again, once I had covered people who were off sick or on holiday, my average monthly wage dropped from around £1200 to £400 in the space of a few weeks. I had a personal confrontation with a group of chav's at work. I calmed the situation down but was intimidated every time they came in to my workplace for fuel. I asked my manageress to move me to my local depot, but she was reluctant. One day, my girlfriend picked me up from work and the chav's, along with a few friends followed my girlfriend and myself home. I got out of the car, confronted them and they drove off shouting obscenities and threats. I told my manageress about the incident, and that it was now involving my girlfriend and I feared for her safety, more so than mine. She would not move me to a different site.
I then caught wind that they were going to sign over the site to another company, so we were to lose our jobs at Christmas, regardless. I called my area manager and told him what was going on and for him to please override my manageress and move me to the site nearer home. He wasn't bothered either. I told my manageress that I was in danger, and that my girlfriend, having played no part in this altercation was being targeted. They told me that the best thing to do was to quit my job if I didn't feel safe. I took my uniform and work property back to work and waited for my last monthly wage (which only worked out to about a weeks money). I never received the money that was owed. I called head office and they said that they weren't my direct employers and that I would have to take the matter up with my manageress or area manager as they were not directly linked to the company as it was a franchise. I was then informed that one piece of my uniform was missing (a jacket) and that I wouldn't get paid until I had returned it. There was not one item of their property I had kept. That was over 12 months ago and I have not yet been paid. I can write than one off.
So, yes. My last three employers, and quite possibly the one before that have screwed me over in some way. I can't remember the timeline for jobs as it's over a few years ago.
Conclusion:
Again you still don't understand the principles of business and running one of your own. If we work out REAL hours on the job a lot of us would be close to minimum wage! You believe that we do 4 hours work a day and have Fridays off and all the work magically appears.
No, I don't understand the principles of running a business, as I've never ran a business. I also never said or thought that you work 4 hours per day.
Conclusion:
Again no business acumen. It's not the size of the jobs it's having the continuity of work.
See above reply.
I would have thought you would have regular work on, no matter how large or small the specific job is. How am I to know that?
Conclusion:
STILL not understanding how a business has to function. You are still thinking as an employee even though you have no employer.
Again, see above reply. I DO NOT know how a business functions as I have never ran a business. I obviously know that there are costs involved, as you have listed.
Yes we all have bills and costs to pay but.... as a business owner BEFORE I can think about paying all the bills that we all share eg:
Mortgage,
house insurance,
contents insurance, car insurance on 2 vehicles,
council tax....
This is without saving for our childrens futures, putting them in cars, uni, houses and still no holiday that most employed people enjoy.
BEFORE all of these I have to consider my operational costs. Such as:
Van purchase every 3 years,
Van insurance,
Fuel,
Tax,
NI,
Public Liability Insurance,
Public Indemnity Insurance....
There is probably loads that I have missed of of both lists but the point is that even as a sole trader my yearly operation costs are just shy of £15k before I even think about having to have anything to pay bills with. Thats £300 a week just to stay in business and have a job so I can earn a wage.
An employee has none of that and what they earn ends up in their pockets and just can't see that what we earn doesn't! Go to work tomorrow and ask you bosses how much it costs the company you work for to just operate.
Working at B+Q would save me at least £15k a year. Fixed hours and none of this BS day in day out. I'd sign up tomorrow but it would mean that I didn't get to do what I enjoy for a living and also actually save lives on a pretty much daily basis.
So how were my conclusions?
That was a very informative and lengthy reply. I would just like to say that, although not completely ignorant of the cost of being self employed and running a business, I know that it's not easy (as you have quite clearly shown and stated, which I appreciate).
I would like to thank you for your information. Now I know a bit more about you, and running a business.
Last edited:
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I'd also like to add that I don't know what caused my OP to go t*ts up in the first place. I'd have much rather been told, "Don't be a p***k, don't mess with the boiler, just call someone in" than the lengthy tirade and to-ing and fro-ing that's gone on for four pages.
I didn't mean any annoyance to anyone, but I was talked to like I was unworthy of being in a group of tradesmen on a forum, and basically have been picked on. I'm man enough to take it if I asked a question that was implausible, but being heckled is something I won't stand for, so will give back as good as I get. Some of you have had the decency to correct me and share lengthy and in depth information to things I don't know or understand, of which I appreciate.
I think some people have taken 90% of what I originally posted and added 10% of their own insight into what I had said and completely missed my point, or added things that I never even said or meant, or even posted. I never once said that all tradesmen are rip off merchants or con men, I simply stated that I have been ripped off before and asked for a simple diagnosis and ball park figure of what I would be looking at to fix my problem. Not knowing what the full problem was, if it was worse than I had first estimated, or the fact that my boiler was completely f***ed, hence that's why I asked some advice.
I was asked on here "How much do you think it will cost? It won't cost the Earth" to which I reiterate, I had no idea how much it was going to cost. If someone had said it would cost £30 and another had said £200, I would have been none the wiser. I am not in the GSI field, so wouldn't know. How much would I charge to completely strip your bike, clean it, service it, make any necessary changes or fixes that are required, stick it all back together, wash it, dry it, and deliver it back to you? It's not going to cost the Earth, but what is the cost? Do you know? Would I be ripping you off with the figure I gave or would it be reasonable? Would the job be done properly? Exactly.
Anyway. I hope (most of) you have a good weekend and that a steady flow of work continues for you
I didn't mean any annoyance to anyone, but I was talked to like I was unworthy of being in a group of tradesmen on a forum, and basically have been picked on. I'm man enough to take it if I asked a question that was implausible, but being heckled is something I won't stand for, so will give back as good as I get. Some of you have had the decency to correct me and share lengthy and in depth information to things I don't know or understand, of which I appreciate.
I think some people have taken 90% of what I originally posted and added 10% of their own insight into what I had said and completely missed my point, or added things that I never even said or meant, or even posted. I never once said that all tradesmen are rip off merchants or con men, I simply stated that I have been ripped off before and asked for a simple diagnosis and ball park figure of what I would be looking at to fix my problem. Not knowing what the full problem was, if it was worse than I had first estimated, or the fact that my boiler was completely f***ed, hence that's why I asked some advice.
I was asked on here "How much do you think it will cost? It won't cost the Earth" to which I reiterate, I had no idea how much it was going to cost. If someone had said it would cost £30 and another had said £200, I would have been none the wiser. I am not in the GSI field, so wouldn't know. How much would I charge to completely strip your bike, clean it, service it, make any necessary changes or fixes that are required, stick it all back together, wash it, dry it, and deliver it back to you? It's not going to cost the Earth, but what is the cost? Do you know? Would I be ripping you off with the figure I gave or would it be reasonable? Would the job be done properly? Exactly.
Anyway. I hope (most of) you have a good weekend and that a steady flow of work continues for you
Last edited:
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