Baxi bermuda 401 back boiler. Gas technician disabled the boiler.

[garnet]

Hi all,

I have had an unleasent experience with a gas engineer today.
I have a baxi bermuda 401 back boiler. Very old but works perfectrly.
It was time for the anual servicing. I got someone to come and do it.
They came, opened the boiler, and found out that the thermal insulation of the front is cracked. Still there, but cracked a bit. So they said they fill fail the boiler and they did disable it. So I now can not use it.
I said it's been working great so far and this cracked insulation is not real issue. He disagred and went ahead to disable the boiler.

Some questions:
Can he disable the boiler if I disagree? Especially for issue like this. He mentioned he would go to jail if the boiler is left in operation, but I believe this is a bit of exaggeration. Could he have said 'Sorry, then I am not touching that boiler' and leave?

How dis he diasble it? I can light the pilot, but as soon as I release the grey button on the gas valve the pilot stops. Front fire works, so there is gas to the boiler and fire.

Any sugestions?

 

[Exedon]

Suggestions?
Stop playing with things you know nothing about.
If the engineer you have employed says boiler has to be disconnected for safety believe them.

 

[cross thread]

What did it state on the paper work they left ,

 

[garnet]

Suggestions?
Stop playing with things you know nothing about.
If the engineer you have employed says boiler has to be disconnected for safety believe them.

How do you know I know nothing about it? I know it's been working fine for years passing gas safety tests.

I don't know if an engineer can disable a working boiler for cracked insulation and against my will. That's my question isn't it?

We all know about gasmen trying to sell you a new boiler+installation for a few grands, hell I am sure in huge amount of cases the old boiler can be repaired.

Paper work says "broken front cover insulation". This front cover sits about 15cm behind the front fire.

 

[CountryFan]

We as gas engineers need permission from the responsible person (that's you).

If it's classed as At Risk (should be on paperwork) then you sign to state you accept liability should anything happen.

If it's classed as Immediately Dangerous then again we need your permission but we can then escalate it to the Gas Transporter who have rights of access.

Afaik if the insulation is just cracked and doesn't affect the safe operation of the boiler then it's ok to be left. If it's missing or damaged severely then that's a different story.

 

[garnet]

We as gas engineers need permission from the responsible person (that's you).

If it's classed as At Risk (should be on paperwork) then you sign to state you accept liability should anything happen.

If it's classed as Immediately Dangerous then again we need your permission but we can then escalate it to the Gas Transporter who have rights of access.

Afaik if the insulation is just cracked and doesn't affect the safe operation if the boiler then it's ok to be left. If it's missing or damaged severely then that's a different story.

Hi, thanks for the message.
It is classified as "at risk". I specifically said I wanted it to not be disabled. I said it is my liability and I am ok with that, based on experience as it was working ok for ages.

I am a bit confused here, I ordered a maintenance service, meaning open it up and clean it. Check the chimney pulls a d that it basically.

How can someone disable a boiler for a very minor defect? A gas engineer knows all too well that this insulation doesn't affect the safe operation of the boiler. I would be interested for one to explain to me how it would affect the safe operation if they claim it does.

What should I say to the company which sent the engineer?

 

[CountryFan]

What should I say to the company which sent the engineer?

I would ask them to clarify why it's been turned off without your permission and ask them what the risk is as well and go from there.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Gas Engineer has a legal obligation to ensure the safety of any Gas appliance they look at, it's them who risk the HSE taking them to Court, not you.

If in that Engineer's view, the Appliance is unsafe to be used, they have to act accordingly, like it or not. They cannot simply service it and leave if they find something untoward, it's their liberty at stake. Have they tried to sell you a new boiler or made any suggestions about repairing the existing appliance?

Would you argue with a MOT Tester who's just failed your Car for a major defect as 'It was working ok for ages'?

 

[CountryFan]

If in that Engineer's view, the Appliance is unsafe to be used, they have to act accordingly, like it or not.

This is why we have an unsafe situations procedure to follow. AR can be left on if the customer point blank refuses, it's up to us to do everything in our power to turn it off.

Would you argue with a MOT Tester who's just failed your Car for a major defect as 'It was working ok for ages'?

If an MOT tester issues an advisory it doesn't have to be done.

 

[garnet]

Now, I am a sensible person, so if there was a risk of something going wrong specifically due to this insulation I wouldn't mind disabling the boiler.
However the boiler was working ok, and being sensible don't mean being stupid. The damage would have been done long time ago if that insulation had a major part to play. Granted the boiler is slightly less efficient, but the heat coming from the front cover heats the gas fire - solid metal and burner ceramics. Nothing can be set on fire.

It is the engineer's judgment what matters, not your's. E.G. , Cracked insulation could get to overheating case.
Your opinion doesnt matter
Thread locked.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

This is why we have an unsafe situations procedure to follow. AR can be left on if the customer point blank refuses, it's up to us to do everything in our power to turn it off.

If an MOT tester issues an advisory it doesn't have to be done.

I don't think we're getting the full story from the OP, I get the impression they think because its working ok, then it's safe to use, the Engineer appears to think otherwise, and has disabled the boiler.


MOT Advisory's don't have to be fixed, they are advice on things that may need attention in the future. 'Dangerous' defects though mean the Driver or Owner is legally prohibited from driving the vehicle until the defects are repaired. My point is, if the OP knows as much about cars as they seem to about Boilers, would they argue with the MOT result?

 

[garnet]

I don't think we're getting the full story from the OP, I get the impression they think because its working ok, then it's safe to use, the Engineer appears to think otherwise, and has disabled the boiler.


MOT Advisory's don't have to be fixed, they are advice on things that may need attention in the future. 'Dangerous' defects though mean the Driver or Owner is legally prohibited from driving the vehicle until the defects are repaired. My point is, if the OP knows as much about cars as they seem to about Boilers, would they argue with the MOT result?

Not a good analogy with cars. There is a rule book of what is a dangerous defect with a car and what is advisory.
I don't know how it works with boilers, but I was not given the whole information by the gas engineer. He didn't say do you agree me to disable the boiler? As it turns out I can have it as is provided I take responsibility for it. Am I wrong?