Baxi smoke tube

[June Johnstone]

Hi...1st timer here.

I have a baxi bermuda fire. Got serviced last week. Condemned..too much spillage. Gas engineer had no idea what the 'smoke tube' was (young lad). Did 2 smoke tests holding match in front of radiants. He googled the fire to try and find info. Said chimney was blocked. He did nowt else. Didn't remove the fire so how does he know the chimney is blocked? He only had 2 smoke bombs with him anyway.

I searched for the pdf instructions. Found them. Sent them to eng. He came back. Tried again. Didn't understand the smoke tube way of testing and just held bombs in front of radiants. Smoke filled the room.

Now chimney is going to be swept. Another eng is going to remove the fire first but wasn't happy when I mentioned Baxi. No idea if there is a BBU but I think not. My fire is a Bermuda PW5. I have to wait three weeks for this new engineer to visit.

I have two CO detectors in room and they always showed zero%. I love my fire and use it every evening.

I'm not convinced it is the chimney. What if it is fine? I'm sad that the young eng didn't bother with the smoke tube test. Nobody to ask apart from Diynot.

Has anyone any suggestions if chimney is not blocked? Should I ask young eng for a refund? Anh comments welcome.

 

[Baths'N'Gas]

Fire needs to be removed 100%, sounds like the person didn’t have a clue what they were doing

 

[muggles]

Sounds like you've got a clueless one there. Did he even have a gas qualification for fires? You seem fairly clued up, but a lot of people don't realise that there are separate qualifications required for each appliance group we work on (boilers/cookers/fires/ tumble dryers etc etc) and we're only allowed to work on appliances we're qualified in.

If you haven't already, I wouldn't pay the company who sent him. He clearly didn't know what he was doing.

 

[CBW]

If he used bombs for a spillage test then I’m not surprised the room filled with smoke. Bombs are supposed to go in the chimney area once the fire has been removed. Hard one to say money wise, as we don’t know if there is a genuine issue with the flue/fire, this can only be confirmed by a competent engineer.

 

[June Johnstone]

I say smoke bomb but I'm unsure if it was a match or not. It was a pellet like thing. He held that in front of the radiants. Didn't remove the fire. I will see if I get more replies and I think I will call the company and ask these questions. Also I think I will pay myself for another engineer to come and check it for me....I will ask if he knows about Baxi fires and smoke tubes beforehand though! You are all brilliant! Great for folk like me who have nobody else to ask for advice.

 

[picasso]

Unfortunately if the BBU has been removed your fire will be condemned as using the fire on its own is not allowed.

 

[June Johnstone]

I have a gas engineer friend. He said he would come and have a look next week and see if there is a BBU. I have no idea. I think I will pay him to come and check I think. Worth the money for peace of mind. He did tell me last week that a decommissioned BBU was illegal now...but the engineer who did the check last week never mentioned a BBU at all. He wouldn't know if it has been decommissioned or not as he didn't look.

The fire was previously serviced last October and it passed so I did presume that if there was a BBU then it would have been condemned back then. I've only rented the house since then. Maybe a question for the leasing agent. I shall ask her for a copy of the gas safety certificate from Oct 2020, doubt if she will be happy to give it to me though.

The landlady insists I use her gas plumber and nobody else to remove it next month for the chimney sweep but I am concerned that it is the fire which needs replaced as it has a BBU. Silly to wait three weeks to find out. (I called her plumber yesterday and when he heard it was a Baxi Bermuda he said if it had a back boiler he didn't want to do the job).

Pdf of fire attached - I have a PW5 with the controls at the side. No idea if it ever had a BBU.

Thanks everyone who has replied so far.

 

[muggles]

Your friend is sort of correct, but not entirely so. A fire front may continue to be used after a BBU has been decommissioned, provided the BBU remains in place and the BBU has been decommissioned in such a way that it cannot easily be reactivated. The normal procedure is to replace the 3 way gas isolation valve with a standard isolation valve, and strip out the BBU gas valve & burner. Baxi won't provide any manufacturer support for an appliance left in this condition, but it is perfectly safe and acceptable.

If the BBU has been removed completely then the fire cannot continue to be used as the BBU forms part of the flue system for the fire. Running a fire front with a BBU removed is extremely dangerous.

The landlord or their agent is required to provide you with an up to date gas safety certificate, and a copy should be kept in the property at all times.

 

[June Johnstone]

Thanks muggles. Very helpful to know.

 

[Gasguru]

Much of this doesn't make sense...do we assume the gas fire and back boiler have now been disconnected, labeled up and a warning notice issued against it's use?
These hopeless "gas installers" need reporting to Gas-Safe for gross incompetence and endangering the public.
I'd view any landlord that still has a hopelessly inefficient back boiler in their property as likely to be an extreme tightwad and won't care a hoot about your safety.
Back boilers are one of the most dangerous gas appliances...they need a thorough service every year by competent gas engs....most appliances are vastly safer but not back boilers.
Fire front off and a complete stripdown of the fire and back boiler, thorough inspection and check of the wall vents and chimney (all the way to the roof terminal)....it's no 10 min job.
Smoke pellets (bombs) are for testing the flue integrity (the fire front is not in position), the smoke matches (if necessary inside a smoke tube) are for testing spillage of combustion
products (ie. lethal gasses) when the fire/backboiler are in operation.
How do you get your heating and hot water or are you expected to freeze?
By law you must be able to see a current gas safety record.

 

[muggles]

Thanks muggles. Very helpful to know.

I should say as well that these are very very difficult to sweep as there isn't much space between the BBU's heat exchanger & flue hood, and the flue opening. Worth confirming whether sweeping is actually required before attempting it

 

[June Johnstone]

Thanks Muggles....so would you suggest taking the fire off and doing a smoke bomb test up the chimney first? Can't believe the first guy didn't do this at all. Wish I could ask him back but leasing agent is organised that. Hopefully my own lovely plumber will manage to fit me in to do it before we get the other squad in.

 

[Nige F]

Please let us know the outcome

 

[muggles]

Yes, definitely worth doing a flue pull test with a smoke pellet using the approved method before engaging a sweep

 

[June Johnstone]

Thanks yet again. I've just written an email to the leasing agent asking her to ask the engineer why he didn't do a smoke test up the chimney and I will keep you posted. I've also asked for last year's Gas Safety record. If I get it I think I will call the engineer who did the service and see if he used the smoke tube to do a spillage test. It is really interesting to hear of all these weird and wonderful foibles of a gas fire. I would be sorry to see mine go but maybe it is time for the Baxi Bermuda scrapheap.

Why is it such a big deal to ask a tradesman why he hasn't done what was expected? I've got to do it though as I'm very concerned.

One more thing - would my CO detectors not start making noises if the chimney was blocked?