Be careful with your recruitment adverts

To reflect your position Steve.... WTF were you/your Manager/HR team doing when you recruited her? Surely when recruiting you might think it necessary to explain the role and what it entails?

There are nice things about the coop... like it's the same as it was when it started out but that, as you seem to be learning, has its frustrations!
We used an old application form that didnt detail any disabilities (she wears a badge thing that details whats wrong with her, she didnt have it on in the interview)

The interview style we use makes it clear what the job entails.

(Question is "what sort of jobs do you think you'll be asked to do?" <candidate answers>
<interviewer expands on any answer given and makes clear the physical nature of the job>)
 
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To be fair its difficult for the law to diferrenciate between different grades of disabilities that are there to protect a disabled persons right to fit in and work in society.

When society dictates that we must work to survive yet then decides who survives and who doesnt it becomes an unfair one.
 
To reflect your position Steve.... WTF were you/your Manager/HR team doing when you recruited her? Surely when recruiting you might think it necessary to explain the role and what it entails?

There are nice things about the coop... like it's the same as it was when it started out but that, as you seem to be learning, has its frustrations!
We used an old application form that didnt detail any disabilities (she wears a badge thing that details whats wrong with her, she didnt have it on in the interview)

The interview style we use makes it clear what the job entails.

(Question is "what sort of jobs do you think you'll be asked to do?" <candidate answers>
<interviewer expands on any answer given and makes clear the physical nature of the job>)
She wears a badge that details what's wrong with her?!?!?!?!? WHAT?

It is the responsibility of the prospective Employer to outline what a prospective Employee would be expected to do. Why would ANY employer expect someone from outside the business be able to outline what they expect they would be doing? Surely you can see the holes in your company recruitment process? The line, 'We used an old application form that didnt detail any disabilities' is the first thing that is screaming out loud that there is a problem. Please tell me Steve that the Coop has got some sort of procedural processes for these things?
 
Please tell me Steve that the Coop has got some sort of procedural processes for these things?
Yes! Even the old forms said "do you require any special arrangements for interview" but this is all. The forms we use now are more clear. They specifially ask if they are registered disabled.

If anyone does slip through, we are obliged to find them a job in an office or something, as far as I understand. But dont ask me, I'm only a humble duty manager.

At the end of the day, its people who apply for jobs they KNOW they will have difficulty with and EXPECT us to make special arrangements for, that ****es me off.
 
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Why would ANY employer expect someone from outside the business be able to outline what they expect they would be doing?
Blas, let me put the question to you.

You're applying for a job at a convenience store, job title is "customer service assistant".

"What duties do you think you will be asked to do?"


.....

The question is there, so that they can have a go at what they percieve the role to be, and if needs be, we correct them, and give an overall explanation of the role.
 
There are nice things about the coop... like it's the same as it was when it started out...

Yep, they still can't shift those tins of Fray Bentos Steak & Ale Pies! :LOL: :LOL:
 
To be fair its difficult for the law to diferrenciate between different grades of disabilities that are there to protect a disabled persons right to fit in and work in society.

When society dictates that we must work to survive yet then decides who survives and who doesnt it becomes an unfair one.

its not difficult, having a listed disability, means they are automatically covered by the disability discrimination act.

here are no grades of disability.

having a bad back is not an automatic disability, cancer is.

fall foul of the DDA and your feet wont touch the ground,

you are required to make reasonable adjustments.
 
Why would ANY employer expect someone from outside the business be able to outline what they expect they would be doing?
Blas, let me put the question to you.

You're applying for a job at a convenience store, job title is "customer service assistant".

"What duties do you think you will be asked to do?"


.....

The question is there, so that they can have a go at what they percieve the role to be, and if needs be, we correct them, and give an overall explanation of the role.

Before I begin Steve, I'm not having a go at you, it's not your 'fault'. You're a Duty Manager and not specifically skilled in Recruitment.

I'm not knocking the use of the question, it's actually an old trick. The question is posed not only to find out what the candidate 'thinks' the role entails (and then give them more details where required), it's also used to tease out the candidates 'expectations' of the role. Which can prove useful to both parties. I'm confused as to why this 'old form' was/is used and what, on the face of it, seems to be a lacking within your HR function. The 'old form' should have been deleted (HR should have ensured this happened). HR 'should' have explained what the job entails to the candidate. The candidate also has a responsibility to outline any disability/issues they feel may have an impact on their ability to perform duties required. That doesn't mean they can be deselected due to those reasons. I think the person in question here has been poorly recruited. However, there 'seems' to be fault on both sides but I cannot help coming back to the HR team. IF they had a standard recruitment procedure in place were by the specific role is/was outlined to EVERY candidate then situations such as this become less likely.

Please tell me Steve that the Coop has got some sort of procedural processes for these things?
Yes! Even the old forms said "do you require any special arrangements for interview" but this is all. The forms we use now are more clear. They specifially ask if they are registered disabled.

If anyone does slip through, we are obliged to find them a job in an office or something, as far as I understand. But dont ask me, I'm only a humble duty manager.

At the end of the day, its people who apply for jobs they KNOW they will have difficulty with and EXPECT us to make special arrangements for, that p****s me off.
Why does that pee you off though? It's not someone's fault that they're disabled. Surely as a society we want to encourage an environment where everyone of all abilities can contribute to the world of work.

EDIT: What's this 'badge' you mentioned?
 
thats the kind of discrimination ive had to fight for 5yrs

ignorance
 
OK Blasphemous, here's the story.

2 years ago, two of the biggest Co-ops in the UK merged. Between them they had (at the time) 85,000 people working in the food sector alone, and a combined weekly turnover of £95m. The two companies were operationally different. The merger was to take over 2 years (including rebranding stores, which is only just complete).

At the time of the recruitment for this new store we were opening (14 months ago), there was a period of change happening (the two HR functions had to merge, but they were still operating as two seperate entities), and nobody really knew what was happening in terms of the HR function, and whos recruitment and training materials we were to use.

I, and my colleagues involved in the recruitment of this new store, were from the smaller of the two companies, and we used all their recruitment and training materials, as this is what we knew. The other company's training materials were completely alien to us, and we were on a tight deadline. The HR lady who was supposed to be helping us, from the other company never answered her phone, and thus we proceeded without her.

We were told that (as this store opening had been in the pipeline of the smaller company for a year) this store would be opening operationally under the smaller company, until the two businesses were operationally merged, but it turned out, they wanted it under the bigger company now to save costs later on. Getting our new staff onto payroll was another debacle. Our first staff started on 15th november, yet nobody actually got paid until 31st dec, because nobody at the bigger company actually knew this store existed. Frankly, yes, it was one long joke.

We just opened at the wrong time, and it was stressful for all concerned. :( We now have a much more robust recruitment process. (But I know for a fact that some stores still use the old materials, there are vast stocks of them in some stores)

______________________________________________________________

And the disability thing - she has this badge which she takes pride in flashing all the time, whenever she thinks it might get her something. I dont know what it says on it, but she wears it round her neck. She probably knocked it up in MS Office for all I know. The first we saw of it was on her first day at work. The first we knew of her disability was during the induction - on the way out, after her manual handling video, she said "oh by the way, I cant do manual handling, lifting heavy objects is out of the question". I then had an awful sinking feeling.

I have nothing against disabled people, but I really dont see the point in them applying for a job which they would have difficulty doing. I mean, take my example. She cant stand for long periods, nor lift heavy objects. This pretty much rules out most jobs in a convenience store (the jobs which were explained to her during the interview, during which she didnt mention her disability). What "reasonable adjustments" could we make, besides moving her to a bigger store with sit-down checkouts, or an office? She has no transport. Its a no-win situation for all involved.
 
its not difficult, having a listed disability, means they are automatically covered by the disability discrimination act.

here are no grades of disability.

having a bad back is not an automatic disability, cancer is.
fall foul of the DDA and your feet wont touch the ground,

you are required to make reasonable adjustments.
In trying to be diplomatic I may have been misinterpreted?

By grades I didnt mean official ones but still they are extremely dibiliating, ask sufferers of bad backs how painful it can be yet they have no official cover.

Ok back ache can come and go but should it discriminate you against someone who is officially disabled and entitled to apply for jobs?
 
its not difficult, having a listed disability, means they are automatically covered by the disability discrimination act.

here are no grades of disability.

having a bad back is not an automatic disability, cancer is.
fall foul of the DDA and your feet wont touch the ground,

you are required to make reasonable adjustments.
In trying to be diplomatic I may have been misinterpreted?

By grades I didnt mean official ones but still they are extremely dibiliating, ask sufferers of bad backs how painful it can be yet they have no official cover.

Ok back ache can come and go but should it discriminate you against someone who is officially disabled and entitled to apply for jobs?
The thing with a bad back is there's no let up. It knacks when you stand, sit, lie down. It really can be very debilitating.

Thanks for the background Steve. You certainly have drawn the short straw with that 'HR' team. I find it difficult to even call them a HR team!

There are points in your background description I am itching to expand on but it would get into a LOOOONNNNGGGG discussion and even then I'm pretty sure no one there would act on any advice. Good luck.......... you'll need it!
 
There are points in your background description I am itching to expand on but it would get into a LOOOONNNNGGGG discussion and even then I'm pretty sure no one there would act on any advice. Good luck.......... you'll need it!
Email me :LOL:
 
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