could anyone advise on the best priced tool to use to remove rotton wood before using the repair care product dry flex,thanks 
best tool
- Thread starter ando
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A new tenon saw and a very sharp chisel, maybe - if you are doing window frames etc.
I can't see how products can work for any length of time - the rotten material will continue to decay, and any filling material will eventually fall out.....thats how I see it, anyway!
John
I can't see how products can work for any length of time - the rotten material will continue to decay, and any filling material will eventually fall out.....thats how I see it, anyway!
John
thanks, i have found a power tool called a mini profi but at £200 i wondered if there was a cheaper alternative a chiesel could be the answer
As John says, a hammer, chisel and saw. With rotten timber, you need to find decent timber then go back 1m making sure all the sores are removed. This is for joist/floorboard work.
Andy
Andy
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If you are routing out straight joins in windows etc then the best tool is a standard router - if you already have one - with a straight 4 or 5 mm cutter. You have to take out the window, lay it flat and use a template and guide bush to get a reliable straight line.
If you are trying to rout free hand, as with the Mini Profi tool from Repair Care, then the Trend T4 EK is around a quarter of the price of the Mini Profi in the UK, and is more powerful at 850 watt. It also comes with a plunge router base to use with a template as above, AND the plunge base comes off for free hand use. The equivalent Trend Craft cutters are also around a third of the price of the Repair Care ones.
Before you attempt to use a free hand router on a door or window frame you need to have plenty of practice on offcuts of wood. It is more difficult to avoid judders and wavy lines than it would seem from the Repair Care literature and point of sale material. Use the high speeds recommended by Repair Care, keep both hands on the router at all times when it is running, and be very safety conscious generally. Be prepared to use a chisel etc first to prepare the outline on the surface of the wood before you start with the router. Once you are below the surface things become much easier. Good luck - and let us know how you get on.
If you are trying to rout free hand, as with the Mini Profi tool from Repair Care, then the Trend T4 EK is around a quarter of the price of the Mini Profi in the UK, and is more powerful at 850 watt. It also comes with a plunge router base to use with a template as above, AND the plunge base comes off for free hand use. The equivalent Trend Craft cutters are also around a third of the price of the Repair Care ones.
Before you attempt to use a free hand router on a door or window frame you need to have plenty of practice on offcuts of wood. It is more difficult to avoid judders and wavy lines than it would seem from the Repair Care literature and point of sale material. Use the high speeds recommended by Repair Care, keep both hands on the router at all times when it is running, and be very safety conscious generally. Be prepared to use a chisel etc first to prepare the outline on the surface of the wood before you start with the router. Once you are below the surface things become much easier. Good luck - and let us know how you get on.
Oscillating multi tool without doubt. Safe to use, start at about £50 up to about £400 ish.
I have company that restores windows, www.repair-restore.co.uk and although we use the professional version of Fein multimaster (too expensive for a one off) it is fantastic. You can cut to the glass edge without cracking it, you can cut to a set depth. With various width and length cutters you can use it for grout removal, nail cutting, putty removal, sanding etc, etc.
For a DIYer a would think the oscillating multi tool would be a must in the tool kit.
Dont do this at home, but the salesman who sold us our first Fein Multimaster demonstrated its safe to use properties by passing the sharp toothed cutter across the palm of his hand while running. And I don't mean jogging. It sold it to us, amassing, it only cuts rigid objects.
Steve.
I have company that restores windows, www.repair-restore.co.uk and although we use the professional version of Fein multimaster (too expensive for a one off) it is fantastic. You can cut to the glass edge without cracking it, you can cut to a set depth. With various width and length cutters you can use it for grout removal, nail cutting, putty removal, sanding etc, etc.
For a DIYer a would think the oscillating multi tool would be a must in the tool kit.
Dont do this at home, but the salesman who sold us our first Fein Multimaster demonstrated its safe to use properties by passing the sharp toothed cutter across the palm of his hand while running. And I don't mean jogging. It sold it to us, amassing, it only cuts rigid objects.
Steve.
I agree that a multi-tool is also useful. The Bosch GOP 250 CE is currently £99.95 at Axminster Tools. With an Imperial MM300 (stiff BIM 32mm blade) it is ideal for removing old putty - use slow speed or it will overheat. If you don't already have an orbital delta sander then it comes with a delta head for sanding into corners too ( not quite as good as an orbital delta though).
However, I wouldn't use the multi-tool for removing unwanted timber unless you want straight lines and corners - for example bedding on a new cill front. The Repair-Care DVD shows the use of a router to remove irregular shapes of unwanted timber, and they should know what they are doing. Watch the DVD ( free from Repair-Care ) and decide for yourself.
However, I wouldn't use the multi-tool for removing unwanted timber unless you want straight lines and corners - for example bedding on a new cill front. The Repair-Care DVD shows the use of a router to remove irregular shapes of unwanted timber, and they should know what they are doing. Watch the DVD ( free from Repair-Care ) and decide for yourself.
This post is asking about the best tools for removing decayed timber from old windows and frames etc in preparation for the use of Dry-Fix and Dry-Flex to repair split joints and replace the decayed timber. The refurbishment will also involve removing old putty which is loose or cracked and replacing it with Dry-Seal. All these products are produced by Repair-Care – see their web site and/or ask them for the free DVD. The products are expensive, but a joy to work with. They also have good technical support for users.
I have now had the opportunity of testing all the different methods of timber removal and can report the result of my experiences as follows:
It all depends on the accessibility and the shape of hole desired. For using Dry-Flex the hole must have a minimum 5mm shoulder. The resin must be at least 5mm thick, and preferably not more than 10mm. If the hole is deeper use a timber insert with a 5mm layer of resin all round. Obviously one would remove as little sound timber as possible, but these requirements determine the shape of hole needed to produce a long lasting repair.
If possible, the best tool to cut the hole is a plunge router used with a template ( ie 6mm MDF with a slot or hole cut into it ) and a guide bush. Normal straight cutters with bottom cut are fine.
If that is not possible one can use a router freehand as demonstrated in the DVD. Repair-Care sell a Mini-Profi freehand router tool for this purpose, but this is very expensive and does not have a plunge base. In comparison the Trend T4 is only £75 or so from Axminster Tools, and it comes with a plunge base which can be removed for freehand routing. Magic!
Other contributors have suggested using a chisel or a multi-tool. A chisel is fine for working along the grain, but a Multi-tool is better for cutting straight lines across the grain, although it does leave rough corners. A multi-tool can also be used for removing putty and for sanding with a delta head. And yes - a multi-tool is safer and easier to use than a router, so one does need to use care and follow the correct procedures with a router.
When routing wear goggles and a dust mask. If you are really nervous it is also possible to buy special gloves to protect against cuts. However, if you always keep both hands on the router when it is rotating then these should not be necessary. For freehand routing try to brace one hand against a solid object. Always rout against the rotation of the cutter.
A slot template with a 5mm straight cutter ( Trend C004 ) and guide bush the same diameter as the slot width ( 30mm is the standard ) is ideal for routing out "conservation joints" – ie along existing joins in the timber which have separated – to cut a 5mm wide by 10mm deep slot along the joint to prepare with Dry-Fix and then fill with Dry-Flex. This holds the joint together and stops any further deterioration around the joint.
Turning to freehand routing, the most aggressive cutter for removing decayed timber as used by Repair-Care is the 9.5-10mm diameter radius cutter ( eg Trend C053 or C0543A ). This does remove timber very easily, but is not for the faint hearted and in my opinion should not be used within 5-10mm of the desired edge in case it judders. The next stage is to tidy up the edges with the 5mm straight cutter. This is also ideal for running the side against a flat surface to shave off a little or clean up. Finally, one can finish off critical areas and clean up with a bullnose burr ( Trend S49/3 ) This is expensive at £26 but it is much easier to use freehand than a cutter, and would be a useful alternative to the radius cutter for newcomers. As with all cutters adjust the speed and keep it moving to avoid overheating and burning the wood.
It is possible to use a multi-tool to remove rectangular slabs of wood, and then tidy up and round the corners with a router to avoid the weakness of square corners. However, a multi-tool comes into its own when removing old putty which is cracked but still stuck firmly to the window. The Bosch GOP 250 CE is currently £100 from Axminster Tools and I bought one specially for this purpose ( I already had an orbital delta sander ). I used an Imperial MM300 30mm stiff BIM blade. You cut the putty fillet in half lengthwise and this usually enables it to be prised off. You can also cut carefully along the timber joins if necessary, and perpendicularly under the glass join too for stubborn bits ( ie not along the glass but towards the edge of the frame ).
When finished you can then fit the delta head supplied and use the multi-tool for sanding before priming the surfaces. As its name suggests you can use a multi-tool for all sorts of other things too – you just need a killer job to justify buying one! I was working with 100 year old cedarwood sash windows which are irreplaceable, so the cost of tools was not an issue.
Let us know how you get on.
I have now had the opportunity of testing all the different methods of timber removal and can report the result of my experiences as follows:
It all depends on the accessibility and the shape of hole desired. For using Dry-Flex the hole must have a minimum 5mm shoulder. The resin must be at least 5mm thick, and preferably not more than 10mm. If the hole is deeper use a timber insert with a 5mm layer of resin all round. Obviously one would remove as little sound timber as possible, but these requirements determine the shape of hole needed to produce a long lasting repair.
If possible, the best tool to cut the hole is a plunge router used with a template ( ie 6mm MDF with a slot or hole cut into it ) and a guide bush. Normal straight cutters with bottom cut are fine.
If that is not possible one can use a router freehand as demonstrated in the DVD. Repair-Care sell a Mini-Profi freehand router tool for this purpose, but this is very expensive and does not have a plunge base. In comparison the Trend T4 is only £75 or so from Axminster Tools, and it comes with a plunge base which can be removed for freehand routing. Magic!
Other contributors have suggested using a chisel or a multi-tool. A chisel is fine for working along the grain, but a Multi-tool is better for cutting straight lines across the grain, although it does leave rough corners. A multi-tool can also be used for removing putty and for sanding with a delta head. And yes - a multi-tool is safer and easier to use than a router, so one does need to use care and follow the correct procedures with a router.
When routing wear goggles and a dust mask. If you are really nervous it is also possible to buy special gloves to protect against cuts. However, if you always keep both hands on the router when it is rotating then these should not be necessary. For freehand routing try to brace one hand against a solid object. Always rout against the rotation of the cutter.
A slot template with a 5mm straight cutter ( Trend C004 ) and guide bush the same diameter as the slot width ( 30mm is the standard ) is ideal for routing out "conservation joints" – ie along existing joins in the timber which have separated – to cut a 5mm wide by 10mm deep slot along the joint to prepare with Dry-Fix and then fill with Dry-Flex. This holds the joint together and stops any further deterioration around the joint.
Turning to freehand routing, the most aggressive cutter for removing decayed timber as used by Repair-Care is the 9.5-10mm diameter radius cutter ( eg Trend C053 or C0543A ). This does remove timber very easily, but is not for the faint hearted and in my opinion should not be used within 5-10mm of the desired edge in case it judders. The next stage is to tidy up the edges with the 5mm straight cutter. This is also ideal for running the side against a flat surface to shave off a little or clean up. Finally, one can finish off critical areas and clean up with a bullnose burr ( Trend S49/3 ) This is expensive at £26 but it is much easier to use freehand than a cutter, and would be a useful alternative to the radius cutter for newcomers. As with all cutters adjust the speed and keep it moving to avoid overheating and burning the wood.
It is possible to use a multi-tool to remove rectangular slabs of wood, and then tidy up and round the corners with a router to avoid the weakness of square corners. However, a multi-tool comes into its own when removing old putty which is cracked but still stuck firmly to the window. The Bosch GOP 250 CE is currently £100 from Axminster Tools and I bought one specially for this purpose ( I already had an orbital delta sander ). I used an Imperial MM300 30mm stiff BIM blade. You cut the putty fillet in half lengthwise and this usually enables it to be prised off. You can also cut carefully along the timber joins if necessary, and perpendicularly under the glass join too for stubborn bits ( ie not along the glass but towards the edge of the frame ).
When finished you can then fit the delta head supplied and use the multi-tool for sanding before priming the surfaces. As its name suggests you can use a multi-tool for all sorts of other things too – you just need a killer job to justify buying one! I was working with 100 year old cedarwood sash windows which are irreplaceable, so the cost of tools was not an issue.
Let us know how you get on.
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