Best way to support stairs?

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Hi all,

Having a insulated solid floor put in on ground floor. Converting from a suspended timber floor.

trying to figure out a way to remove joists and floor boards beneath the stairs whilst supporting the staircase when they’re removed.

base of floor to the bottom of the newel is 260mm. Concrete footings already in place.

any ideas?
 

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Will the new floor level be the same as the old floor level? What is the structure of the new floor?

Providing you remove some of the underdrawings at the bottom of the stairs, it should be possible to build a temporary support framework out of, say, 4 x 2in or 5 x 2in softwood which would be set back a couple of feet from the bottom of the stringers supporting the stringers on angled blocks (nailed or screwed). This would allow you to pull out the old floor from beneath the bottom ends of the stringers and install some form of permanent support platform to carry the weight of the bottom of the stringers and the newel post in the future (possibly a ladder frame of 7 x 2in C16 onto a DPM?).
 
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Will the new floor level be the same as the old floor level? What is hhe structute of the new floor?

hi,

New floor will be the same level as the top of the floor boards, so yes same finished floor level.

new floor structure will be DPM, 150mm insulation, 130mm concrete.

cheers
 
Maybe support the underside of the bottom of the stairs with bricks, then alongside newel post clamp and fix timber which rests on concrete below with suitable dpm protection. Remove bricks. Complete the floor, when dry add the stringer support, remove the temporary post and cut flush below ffl.

Blup
 
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Will the insulation carry the weight of the stairs? It should be able to, but to be on the safe side I'd probably just fix a piece.of 6 x 2in or 7 x 2in C16 softwood beneath the ends of the two stringers and the newel post so that the weight of the stairs is spread over a bigger area than just the small bottom ends of the stringers (stops the stringer ends digging into your screed before it has set - this piece of wood gets cast into the concrete). Your temporary supports can be pulled out after the concrete is fully set and the holes left by doing so filled in with screed. I wouldn't depend on the stringer by the wall being fixed to the masonry either adequately or even at all - seen too many instances of missed or inadequate fixings to believe that they are there and good
 
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Thanks guys, just trying to familiarise myself with what different parts of the stairs are called.

would it be possible to have a rough sketch of your ideas so I can visualise it better?

cheers
 
Staircase Terminology.png


Top of stairs detail:

Stair Parts for Closed Riser Stairs.png


Note that this is the current standard - earlier stairs aren't always the same and the one thing often missed (including in some modern installations, especially where the walls are not masonry) is the side fixings into the wall. In effect your stairs are supported by the stringers being notched over floor at the top and held in place with some fixings through the top nosing into the floor trimmer, joist (in this case the "I" beam shape) or floor. At the bottom the newel post is mortised out and the stringer has a matching tenon cut into it, but fundamentally the bottom of the stringers is generally shaped like this - so your stairs sit on two small rectangular ends:

Stringer Bottom Detail.jpg


To prevent damage to trhe stairs you need to support the structure whilst you remove the floor joists beneath the bottom end. I think trying to do this with a stack of loose bricks is potentially dangerous. The support structure needs to be rigid, fixed to the stair stringers (90/100mm nails or 5 x 100mm screws), becuse at the end if the day you could be supporting 200kg of stairs, bannister, underdrawings, framing, etc which may pivot from the top end of supported on anything loose. Sketch of arrangement below:

Stair Temporary Support.jpg


When you have got the staircase adequately supported, the floor and framing beneath the bottom end can be removed and the bottoms of the stringers and the newel post tied together (permanently with a piece of timber screwed upwards into the bottoms of the stringers and newel. These are not new stairs (probably 80 to 90 years old from the style) hence my caution in recommending that the bottom of the stairs is tied together

Stringer Bottom Tie.jpg


It is up to you how that sits in place, but you could either fix two vertical legs beneath the tie block which sit on your (new) DPM, then just remove the temporary support underneath the stringers, install the insulation then add the screed:

Stair Bottom Support.jpg


or you could do without the feet but leave the temporary support in place whilst you install the insulation and run in the screed (screeding around the tie block) and once the screed iis fully cured remove the temporary supports, back-filling the resulting holes with more screed (basically a small amount of sand and cement knocked-up on site)

The glue blocks and wedges that hold your stairs together can be clearly seen in this photo from below, taken before the under drawings (generally a plasterboard, plywood or hardboard applied to the underside of the stairs, as in the case of your stairs) are applied:

Stair Wedges from Beneath.jpg


It is hopefully apparent why I would take the precaution of adequately supporting the stairs and fixing a tie block beneath the bottom ends of the stringers and bnewel post; I have seen people being a bit slapdash doing this in the past and having parts of the stairs pull away - not an easy thing to repair in situ

Apologies for the ropey sketches, but I am on the train and it's a bit of a bumpy ride - and this laptop doesn't have any graphics software on it!
 
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Really appreciate the detailed approach, I understand now and will go with this method.

Thanks again, i'll make sure to post in here with an update!

Cheers
 

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