Bloody Apologists!!

[Freddie]

Ban all Sheds now the history expert some facts for you-----untill around 1910 the Japs were a closed society who had nothing to do with foriegners, they were a warrior nation who believed in the honour of things and the principle of honour WAS the thing that was instilled in them from the day they were born.

After a brief spell of mixing with western and other societies and infact becoming allies of the west even in WW1 and afterwards they turned in on theirselves again due to sanctions being bought against them in part driven by some of the things they were up to ie--china.

All through this period they were ruled by Emporers who were their gods.

All japs believed this way of life as they knew no other.

Now i might be thick and not know what the correct word is so i may use the term brainwashed you may use other.

The japs did terrible things in WW2 and escaped justice and since then have re-written history in japan and not told their newer folk what their reletives got up to.

Alot of those reletives are still around and and their financial empires intact and booming.

Since the war various groups have tried for justice and compo without any success.

Now one of the countries the japs c r apped all over is big and powerfull and ready to take back land siezed and maybe looking for a bit of justice of their own.

The japs are blubbering to every and all that its not fair and expect the west to help

My attitude is what goes around comes around and fuk em because of what they did in the war and because they have got away scot free

 

[Freddie]

The Turks had a large empire.

 

[Big_Spark]

Freddie, I hate to say this, as we appear to agree on most aspects of this particular debate, but it was actually the RAF who started the bombing of civilian targets, however as you pointed out this was accidental as they were simply dumping the bombs before returning home.

Hitker took this personally and ordered Goering to order the Luftwaffe to Bomb London the very next day, this was followed by the notorious period known as The Blitz.

 

[Freddie]

Well i thought that was the other way around and Churchill bombed Berlin the next day--anyway we have the facts but one of us has them the wrong way around.

On the japs me and you and others have put facts and other info on here and there have been some rants, but all in all our points are raised on the facts which are written down in history---now BanallSheds has come on and said -- dont say this and dont say that---but no explanation as to where our facts are incorrect---i do wish that before someone comes in with a view that they could at least explain their points and on what basis we or they are right or wrong

 

[Freddie]

sorry double post

 

[Big_Spark]

BAS, regarding the Armenian Massacre..

The prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, recently urged a commission of historians to be formed to establish whether genocide occurred.

"It is wrong and unjust for our European friends to press Turkey on these issues," said President Ahmet Necdet Sezer. "These claims upset and hurt the feelings of the Turkish nation. What needs to be done is research and investigate and discuss history, based on documents and without prejudice."

The Turks are not admitting nor are they denying such killings took place, they are looking to establish whether it was Genocide directly, as implied by commentators, or whether it was a combination of death by desease and starvation following the forced deportation to Syria and deliberate murder.

Whilst I do agree that they are still responsible for the deaths caused by desease and starvation, afterall they forced the deportations, and I do think that for the stability of the region Turkey needs to do something public and visible to silence those who use this against them, this is not on anything like the scale of the Japanese atrocities.

If you do a calculation of daily death rates, then the Turks, if you attribute all the 1.5 million detahs to them, average a little over 4000 per day, however when you do the same calculation for the Japanese, even though the period of time is so much more, it is still an average of some 12500 per day!!

And this does not include those killed in combat!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Freddie - I'm not arguing with you - I said I agreed about the conditioning/indoctrination/brainwashing.

I also agree that it was wrong for them not to apologise, or have offered reparations, or have been prosecuted (ignoring for now the dubious legality of Nuremburg), but show me any war in which the right things were always done, during or after. And remember how excessive zeal in penalising Germany after WW-I contributed to WW-II.

FWL seems to want to blame an entire race, now and forever, for the societal distortions that date back nearly a century ago.

He said "My personal feeling is the b*****d didn't get enough, we should have Nuked all their b****y cities.".

I'd like to ask him if he'd like to do that now. We have the capability - we have submarine-based nuclear weapons, we could do it. Does he think we should? If not, why not? He thinks we should have done it 60 years ago, so why not now? It's only 60 years - surely the passage of time can't mean that they should escape being wiped of the face of the earth?

Oh - and re the Armenian thing - I think you should seek out sources a little less biased than the Turks to find out about it. And if it's OK to kill 1.5 million civilians, but not 22 million, I'd like to see your scale of charges - at what point does it become unacceptable?

Should we ask Denmark to apologise for what they did to this country in the 9th century?

 

[Freddie]

I also think back in 1945 we should have nuked the whole lot of them because of what they did with the full support of their civilian public, in 1945 the only good jap was a dead jap and dont spare them any pity for the problems now.

Now today of course you cant do that as most of the people are different but i sure as hell aint gonna lift a finger to help them if some other country wants to stick the boot in over unfinished business---thats their problem

 

[Big_Spark]

BAS, for someone who claims to be intelligent, you seem very myopic in your readin of this thread, you are a plonker.

I have said NUMEROUS (Meaning Many) times that I Not hold hold the current egenration responsible for the actions of their forefathers, but I do hold them repsonsible for the lies, deciet, denial and rewriting of history.

BAS, if you cannot be bothered to read an entire thread before spouting liberalism, please don't bother spouting crap.

Also, Danmark was not a country then, The Vikings came from Danmark and Norway, they were a tribe of people from a part of the world which is now seperated into Danmark and Norway. OK so this change occured around the end of the 9th century, but they were not actual nation states prior to this.

Further, if you need to go back so far to make a silly point, then perhaps it is not worth making.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, for someone who claims to be intelligent, you seem very myopic in your readin of this thread, you are a plonker.

Thank you.

I have said NUMEROUS (Meaning Many) times that I Not hold hold the current egenration responsible for the actions of their forefathers, but I do hold them repsonsible for the lies, deciet, denial and rewriting of history.

Every country lies, deceives, denies and rewrites history.

I asked whether you wanted to nuke them now because I know you don't hold the people there now responsible for what happened 60-100 years ago.

And presumably there will come a time when you don't hold the then-current generation responsible for the lies and denials etc?

BAS, if you cannot be bothered to read an entire thread before spouting liberalism, please don't bother spouting rubbish.

You say that as if there is something wrong with holding liberal views? As if you think that "accusing" someone of "spouting liberalism" is some kind of insult.

Why might that be, I wonder?

Also, Danmark was not a country then, The Vikings came from Danmark and Norway, they were a tribe of people from a part of the world which is now seperated into Danmark and Norway. OK so this change occured around the end of the 9th century, but they were not actual nation states prior to this.

Further, if you need to go back so far to make a silly point, then perhaps it is not worth making.

I went that far back deliberately.

MY point is that there always comes a time where you have to stop banging on about the past.

 

[Freddie]

You cant stop banging on about the past while the victims and those who escaped justice are still alive.

 

[kendor]

I think i've sussed out what is going wrong in this forum and why everyone is getting into heated arguments.

Having read back through several posts it's now quite obvious that something has gone wrong with the forums software and peoples quotes are getting all muddled up and confusing people into thinking others had written them and then they reply with something that is completely unconnected to the previous posts making no sense whatsoever and accusations fly left right and centre.
Could it be that another forums posts are getting muddled up here and vice versa?
of course this post will also be affected and will make no sense at all, nothing changes

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The trouble is that when you quote the statements to which you wish to respond, sometimes the person who wrote them objects to being quoted verbatim, calls it selective editing, and lets load a torrent of abuse...

 

[Big_Spark]

BAS, of course you are correct about Victors rewriting history, that has shaped our view of history for millenia, and human nature being what it is, this is unlikely to change, however what makes the Japanes issue so different is that it is LIVING memory. Millions of those who were caught up in the events of that period are still around, they still carry the physical and mental scars of that time and the atrocities commited by the Japanese forces.

I would agree that in another 40 years, when all possible survivors are 100% dead, then the argument will have less relevence and I would agree that it should be left as a historical argument. However as the Japanese are still desperate to lie about those events, they are actually the ones perpetuating the argument and clearly displaying a total disregard for others feelings, yet they expect the world to both feel sorry for them being Nuked and to protect them from the Chinese Dragon across the sea.

To be honest, if you put this in perspective, the Germans lost more in the Bombings of Dresden and Cologne that the Japanese lost in Hiroshime and Nagasaki, and I am including those who have died since 1945. The Germans do not bang on about these two tragedies, so why the hell do the Japs and everyone else..

 

[kendor]

FWL i understand you have personal grief from the war and that is the case for millions around the world and you look on nuking as a quick fix but do you not see that the action causes the same grief that you suffer from? is it really the simple solution? or is it the worst evil that a human could inflict on another?