boiler advice

[1368joe]

Hi,

I've just joint the forum and would like some advice. Here goes.......

I have an ideal standard (concord somthing or other?) floor standing boiler located in a cupboard within a chimney breast at the back of my house, running a coventional system.

My guess is that the boiler is probably 15+ years old? who knows!

I am looking to get it replaced mainly because my bills are going through the roof and i'm told that the current setup is so inefficient and is also dangerous because of lack of ventilation where the currrent boiler sits. I am getting different advice regarding what system to go for. 3 people have been round to look. One said it'd be worth while putting everything up in the loft with sealed megaflow system, he tested the mains preassure which was apparently adequate (over 1 bar with two taps on)... one said that it's best to stay with the convertional system (worcester 24ri??) and move the boiler into the cupboard with the cylinder (upstairs located on outside wall)...and the last one recommended going with a combi (glow worm 38 KW??)

Can anyone please offer advice on the differing options I'm being given so far? I have a 4 bed semi, 1 bathroom that has a seperate electric shower, if it helps?

completely aside from this, my current setup has started misbehaving in that the danfloss timing control is frequently ticking (ticking sound). The lights go on and off with the ticking and sometimes the boiler doesn't ignigte the central heating. This all seamed to coinside with some sort of power surge a month or so back. I'm thinking the control itself has had it, a relay or something gone with the power surge, anyone think otherwise?

thanks...and sorry for the long winded post

 

[Slugbabydotcom]

How much does it cost to run your system for a year?
What estimates did you get?
What is the exact model or GC number of your boiler?
It might not be economically viable to renew your system for say £150 saving a year

To answer your questions,
I would steer you away from putting plumbing stuff in the loft
Boiler and unvented system is best if you have money to spend. Fit an immersion heater in it if it doesnt come with one incase you get a boiler problem. Then you can enjoy a super go faster thermostatic mixer shower that will blow your socks off.
Replacing boiler with conventional system is a better option than a combi IMO especially a Glow Worm.

Thats my opinion. I am aware that others on here may have different ideas.

Looks like your timer needs checking out. Could be a loose wire or as you suspect a fault with the timer itself. What model is it? You might be able to get a direct replacement and slap it on yourself

 

[Paul Barker]

I have done a Net Present Value analysis for you, based on a cost of capital of 7% an initial capital cost of £2,500, a life expectancy of 15 years for your new system, and a fuel saving of £150 per anum, offset by additional maintenance costs for the modern boiler of £100 per anum. Here is the reult.

With a discount rate of 7.00% and a span of 15 years, your projected cash flows are worth £351.18 today, which is less than the initial £2,500.00 paid in order to begin. The resulting NPV of the above project is -(£2,148.82), which means you will not receive the required return at the end of the project--pursuing the above project may not be an optimal decision.

OTOH a new programmer £30. Anual servicing existing system £50? perhaps have a new manufacturers part thermocouple fitted at each service £12, and save up for a new gas valve every 15 years £150 fitted.

Select an alternative investment for your £2,500, I am not going to advise you but sticking a pin in the ftse 100 has historically returned a better yield than minus 2,148.82 out of 2,500 on average since the war..

 

[namsag]

Always say to people more than likely long term you probably won`t save money when you add in the cost of initial upgrade + running costs etc .. But the main benefit with modern boilers and rads especially combi`s is how quickly the house will heat up and how much more controlable it will be .. Compared to the big lump of cast iron in the corner that needs heating first,,

 

[1368joe]

Hi, thanks for the replies, there's some great info there!

I didn't want to scare you all away with to much info up front...but here's the rest of the story...

Current boiler: Concord CF 80N - BGC41 40911. Just looked this up on the web and it's got a 1977 date against it !!!

I'm also worried about where the current boiler is. British Gas came round when I first moved in to check it out whilst transfering the homecare cover I had at my last property. They couldn't cover it for a number of reasons and they also stuck a warning sticker on it because of the lack of ventilation in the room where the cupboard is. They sold me a carbon monoxide alarm to sit near it.

My combined Gas/Elec. bills are now up to £290 a month, which is what the supplier estimates to break even at the end of the year. This is my third year in this property having moved from a smaller property, where I was paying the same supplier £70 a month for the same service (Gas/Elec.). My other property had a combi. I know I now have a bigger place, and gas prices have risen, but this can't be right!

I think part of the hike is on the electricity side as well because I had a 10.8kw shower installed. I went with the electric shower partly because I couldn't afford at the time to replace the boiler, which I could see was old, and I was worried that it may break down leaving me without hot water. I also have no imersion.

Quotes so far:
Company A - £4800 to install Worcester 24Ri with unvented megaflow cl 145 cylinder, all in the loft.
Company A - £3900 to install Worcester 24Ri & albion super duty CF120 Fast recovery (multi core coil) cylinder.
Company B - £4400 to install Worcester 18Ri & cylinder.

These quotes were from two big companies and I've since had a recommended engineer round to get an idea of prices aside from the big companies. He has recommended going with a combi. I'm yet to get his quote through.

The reason for replacing the cylinder as well is another story...Whilst installing my Electric shower and running in the required 10mm cable via the cupboard where my Cylinder sits, I managed to drill through the bottom of the cylinder. Funny now but an absolute nightmare at the time! My cylinder is one of these long thin ones due to the size of the cupboard and on the day of the accident, I could only get a slightly shorter one straight off the shelf without having to order. The result is that I now run out of hot water after filling one bath, and it takes a long time to recover. The recovery issue though I'm told is due to the return on my cylinder being 15mm instead of 22mm.

My (ticking) timer: Danfoss CP715. Also looked up on the web but my model is squarer than the pictures I see. I guess it doesn't matter and I could still just swap it out, but I may have to change the bracket with it?

Alot of info I know...

I'm tempted to go with the conventional replacement, but shop around to get the price down a bit! I also like the idea of the fast recovery cylinder.

 

[Agile]

This current practice of taking monthly payments for energy by direct debit is distancing people from the real cost of their bills.

I dont believe that you are paying over £3000 for gas and elec unless you live in a 8 bed house.

Few people bother to check their actual consumption or payments and the suppliers seriously over debit as it aids their cashflow.

Powergen was taking £470 a month from me when the actual consumption was only £4 a month. That took a lot of work to get the £2100 refunded to me and the account is still £500 in credit.

Tony

 

[1368joe]

I agree, but when I first moved, my direct debit stayed as it was for a while even though I moved to a bigger house. As a result, I ended up with a bit of debt and my bills were upped to accomodate the debt as well as the bigger property. Having cleared the debt, I was hopping that the bills would drop, but they actually increased. I'm hoping that this is just a mistake by the supplier and I should see myself in credit. I haven't had one full cycle (winter/summer) yet to get a good view of it so that remains to be seen!

Joe

 

[JohnD]

You really need to go through your meter readings and look at energy consumed. Don't use the charges as your source of information because prices have gone up a lot.

I calculate a rolling 12-month usage by looking at old bills, and my usage is fairly stable although my bills have gone up a lot.

BTW have a look at changing your suppliers. BG is the most expensive gas supplier, and your old Regional Electricity Company (Seeboard, Southern Electric, SWALEC, Scottish Hydro, whatever) is the most expensive electricity supplier. This is because they are relying on their customers' slug-like inertia in not bothering to buy cheaper energy when it's so easily available. The same company will sell energy much cheaper to customers outside their old geographic region.