boiler changes + central heating inefficiencies

[lorraine]

Hi everyone

As I have a bit of time off I am in the process of sorting out my central heating. The problem is I appear to have sludge (black iron stuff) in my radiators as they are heating up at the top but not the bottom. So i went and got some fernox central heating restorer, drained the system and refilled with said fernox.

anyhow its been running for 2 days now and I can't see any improvement?!? However I shall give it a week.

Because I'm impatient, I took one radiator off and drained it and low and behold a load of black water came out which when dried turned to this powdery kind of stuff. when i put that radiator back on the wall after I flushed it with my powerwasher the performance was much better and was only cool for the bottom 40mm or so.

My problem is the massive radiator in my living room which is fed by microbore has the worst performance in the entire house, its real cold at the bottom but untouchable at the top. I am just deciding whether or not to take the plunge (risk carpets!) and take it off the wall or let the fernox do its trick?!? Any advice greatly appreciated.

On the same note, while I was in the plumbing merchants, they had on display a jar of black stuff and magnaclean, is this device any good? I am considering fitting one if it will reduce all the sludge in my system.

Also I am considering changing boilers and I have had my heart set on a Viessmann one, mainly because on those american DIY shows they always have them and my friend has one and even though its power output is less than mine, I swear blind her radiators and DHW heat up way faster than mine in a similarly sized house.

Currently I have a glo worm ultimate. the only problems I forsee are the plumbing (my boiler has the return and flow coming out the top) and the flue, my boiler has it coming out of the side whereas all the new boilers seem to have it coming out of the top and then into a right angle.

Obviously I'm not going to attempt the gas work myself but as I have enrolled on a plumbing course and got an A* for my soldering I thought I may as well hang the boiler and plumb the pipework!

thanks in advance

Lorraine

 

[Paul Barker]

Hire a powerflush and also use a magnaclean, do the work, noone is bothered.

 

[chrishutt]

H Lorraine, I was wondering just the other day how you were getting on with the plumbing course. Glad to hear you're the tops in soldering.

On your heating problem, try looking at our new sticky reference topic above. It includes a link to guidance (wot i rote) on manual flushing which might be helpful. But....I suspect your problems may not be just about sludge but also to do with balancing of system, which is also covered in the reference section.

 

[lorraine]

hi everyone

yes plumbing course is going okay. It is a lot easier than I expected. The maths and fluid mechanics, I find really easy but some of the actual plumbers find that hard!?! which is rather worrying.

I've now gotten to the stage where I am confident doing plumbing and understand it quite well even though i'm only half way through! the rest is mainly geared towards commercial buildings

as for balancing, I don't think that is the problem. I turned 8 out of my 10 lockshield valves down to 1/4turn open in an attempt to improve the flow to my troublesome radiator but that had little effect to when it was in the standard configuration, radiator was still boiling at the top and freezing at the bottom.

I think I am going to install one of those magnaclean things and hopefully it will pick up some of the magnite in my system!

thanks for the help

Lorraine.

 

[Paul Barker]

Where do you live? Acorn gas spares in Leeds hire out a top notch powerflush. There must be other places around the country, or just buy one if you plan to stay in the trade.

In any case take that rad off and flush it in the garden/yard/street whichever applies. Also flush the microbore pipe seperately.

The magnaclean only collects magatite in suspension it won't get it off where it has already built up.

 

[oilman]

.....yes plumbing course is going okay. It is a lot easier than I expected.

There's not a lot to worry about in most domestic plumbing.

The maths and fluid mechanics, I find really easy but some of the actual plumbers find that hard!?! which is rather worrying.

There's not a great need for the maths and fluid mechanics in most domestic situations, but it seems a lot of "plumbers" find the plumbing hard as well from what I see.

I've now gotten to the stage where I am confident doing plumbing and understand it quite well even though i'm only half way through! the rest is mainly geared towards commercial buildings

Now THAT does get hard, and I keep well out of it.

as for balancing, I don't think that is the problem. I turned 8 out of my 10 lockshield valves down to 1/4turn open in an attempt to improve the flow to my troublesome radiator but that had little effect to when it was in the standard configuration, radiator was still boiling at the top and freezing at the bottom.

I think I am going to install one of those magnaclean things and hopefully it will pick up some of the magnite in my system!

thanks for the help

Lorraine.

You need to take the rads off the walls and flush them as you have micro-bore pipe. If you have some blanking plugs available to block the ends, you wont have much of a problem with the carpets, but just drain the water out of the rad first to reduce the weight you have to carry. The Magnaclean wont get much of the stuff out of the rads that's already there.

 

[chrishutt]

You need to take the rads off the walls and flush them as you have micro-bore pipe.

I'm afraid I don't agree. You can flush through radiators via microbore connections using the guidance given in the link referred to above.

Of course the flow through the rad will not be as strong as with 15mm connections, but providing you drain the rad of water the flow will be forced along the lower channel and clear out the bulk of the sludge.

 

[lorraine]

hi everyone

I was going to take the troublesome radiator off the wall anyway and stick my pressure washer on the end of it, it seemed to work quite well on another sludgey radiator so I might give that a go before I hire a powerflusher!

thanks

Lorraine

 

[chrishutt]

If you find a lot of sludge in the rad, there's probably a lot more of it in the other rads and other parts of the system. It might be worth opening up some pipework to check the inside surfaces, particularly near the feed pipe connection.

 

[Agile]

Make sure you only use your pressure washer in one direction with a clean supply into it!

Talking about womem dabling into plumbing, I bought a couple of replacement toilet seats and was wondering if I would ever have time to fit them. I came home one evening and they were both fitted ( fine ).

Last week, I diagnosed the vaccuum cleaner belt had failed. Next day it was working again ?????

Trouble is, when I get her to help me fit a few rads, she is tired after two hours and insists on an indian meal out afterwards!

Tony

 

[Paul Barker]

Funnily enough we have another Corgi Registered Paul Barker in Scarborough, and his wife works with him. He trades under a different name so we seldom get mix ups but occasionally I have turned up to a job where they were clearly expecting him. We get along ok but his mrs glares at me.

Funnily enough the Buderus rep was saying you can pressure wash their heat exchangers (after removing them and takling them outside I presume).

When yopu look at the power behind a pressure washer, I would think that would be the most likely way to remove sludge from a rad, as long as somewhere appropriate for a complete pebbledashing with ink can be found.

 

[chrishutt]

Buderus rep was saying you can pressure wash their heat exchangers (after removing them and taking them outside I presume).

Wouldn't the condensate drain take the water and debris away in a condensing boiler heat exchanger? No need to remove it then. The pressure washer idea sounds like a good one for this application.

 

[Paul Barker]

Yes in the case of this boiler the aly oxide does collect in the syphon trap but have you ever looked at the heat exchanger of a five year old Ideal Isar? I wouldn't want one in my home. You get a freezer bag full of road grit out of it, but can't get it all out due to the poor design in view of servicing without half a days work. By which time in any case the bottom entry pathetic quality stainless steel burner is corrding.

Is my bias against tiny little boilers with fixed panels all over the place which you can't easily remove for access and even afterwhich you need hands the size of an 8 year old with the strength of Geof Capes to change parts in showing though? Or is my normal level headed subjectivity winning?