Boiler condensate pipe freezes in prolonged cold weather

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I'm hoping that someone can give me some advice :

I have a Worcester condensing boiler. As fitted the boiler had a several meter long small bore condensate pipe leading to the nearest drain. This would always block up when the weather was sub-zero outside, so I had a much bigger drain line (black) fitted just below where the smaller bore line (white ) passes through the wall.

This works much better until the weather has stayed sub-zero for several days, in which case the larger drain also freezes up, the condensate line backs up with water and it spills out underneath the boiler creating a complete mess ! This happened again this week.

I considered putting trace heating on the condensate drain line, but this would be very difficult as no power source anywhere near, and this problem now only occurs on average about every two years when there is a prolonged period of sub-zero temperature.

I am wondering if the temporary solution that I have implemented makes sense ? I plan to leave a gap between the small bore white pipe and the larger bore (black) pipe. That way the water will normally drip down into the larger bore pipe, but if the larger bore pipe freezes up the water can still escape from the smaller bore pipe. I really can't see the smaller bore pipe freezing up as a relatively short length of it is fully exposed to the outside temperature, the condensate should be relatively warm at that point, and the air in the pipe might get a small amount of heat from the upstream part from the boiler.

This solution seemed to work for the past few days when the temperatures were still sub-zero. Any advice or suggestions would be much appreciated - I know that condensates pipes freezing up and blocking is a common problem now when we get prolonged periods of sub-zero temperatures. Some photos below. As fitted the black pipe covered the white pipe up to the ring of silicon sealant :

 
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Is there no way you can plumb the condensate internally ? looks like the boiler is in your kitchen/utility room.
 
Pull it off under the boiler and use a container for a few days..Photo is blurred so cannot tell if first joint is rubber/push fit or glued.
 
I considered putting trace heating on the condensate drain line, but this would be very difficult as no power source anywhere near, and this problem now only occurs on average about every two years when there is a prolonged period of sub-zero temperature.

The long horizontal run of pipe is your problem, but not much you can do about it....

Yes, leave the top of the black pipe open so water can overspill if necessary. You will probably have permanent mains power at your boiler, could you not power your trace heater from that? You only need a few watts if the heater element is inside the pipe.
 
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Pull it off under the boiler and use a container for a few days..Photo is blurred so cannot tell if first joint is rubber/push fit or glued.

Thanks for your reply. The first pipe is glued (solder welded ) but there is a nozzle (at the end of the flexible pipe from the boiler) that is a push fit into the start of the pipe. I pulled this out to drain the water while I got the pipe outside unblocked, but I would be worried about draining it from there for a few days in case I got some carbon monoxide coming out.
 
It is the white pipe that is freezing, you need to upsize it where it goes through the wall
 
The long horizontal run of pipe is your problem, but not much you can do about it....

Yes, leave the top of the black pipe open so water can overspill if necessary. You will probably have permanent mains power at your boiler, could you not power your trace heater from that? You only need a few watts if the heater element is inside the pipe.

Thanks for your reply. Yes - The run to the drain is just too long. Even though it's quite large bore it's still freezing up if it stays sub-zero for several days as has just happened again recently. I never thought of putting trace heating inside the pipe, I thought that I would have to strap it on.... That is a good idea. I guess that if I re-instated the black pipe up to where it was I could drill a hole in the side of it and pass the trace heating cable inside and push down as far as the drain.... Can you get trace heating that is only a few watts but on permanently when switched on ? I have had a quick look online and can only see thermostat operated.

I might actually both leave an "overspill gap " and still trace heat the larger (black) drain. Doing both might be overkill, but I'm terrified of being away from home when there is a cold snap, then coming back to either a very wet kitchen if the place was vacant, or an irate wife if she has been there and the heating packed up !

Yes, I had thought of powering the trace heating from the boiler or somewhere near the boiler. I would just have to drill another hole through the wall to outside. Thanks again for your helpful advice.
 
It is the white pipe that is freezing, you need to upsize it where it goes through the wall

Thanks for your reply Ian. No. The white pipe does not freeze until the water has backed right up in the black pipe. Since I left the gap it has still been sub-zero for several days and the white pipe does not freeze.
 
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Is there no way you can plumb the condensate internally ? looks like the boiler is in your kitchen/utility room.

Thanks for your reply. Not without great difficulty unfortunately. The boiler is in my kitchen but the drain pipes for the sink are a long way away with built-in fridge, cooker etc all blocking the route.
 
As I posted on another thread

Trace heating can prevent water in a pipe from freezing. A DIY trace heater has proven to be effective in a long run of external condensate drain that had frozen several times.

The trace heater was made using nichrome wire sleeved with silicon tubing and run inside the pipe. The power source was a few volts from a low cost toroidal transformer that provided safety isolation of the heating wire from the mains.

The hardest part was threading the nichrome wire into the silicon sleeving.
 
Yes, I had thought of powering the trace heating from the boiler or somewhere near the boiler. I would just have to drill another hole through the wall to outside. Thanks again for your helpful advice.

A DIY low voltage trace heating solution was discussed this morning by Eric, in another similar thread - it only needs a few watts, if inside the pipe, but a double insulating transformer absolutely must be used to supply it. The simple way to automate it, would be to use an ordinary outdoor frost stat, switching the power to the transformer, set to come on <5C.

[EDIT] Sorry it was Bernard's idea.
 
Thanks for your reply. No. The white pipe does not freeze until the water has backed right up in the black pipe. Since I left the gap it has still been sub-zero for several days and the white pipe does not freeze.
you should have a permanent air gap in the outside condensate anyway
 
you should have a permanent air gap in the outside condensate anyway

I do Ian - Until the outside (black) condensate drain freezes up downstream and blocks. Then the drain progressively fills with condensate which freezes. Once the black pipe is full of ice up to the level of the white pipe then the white pipe becomes blocked by ice and the water builds up and comes out inside the house ! If I create a more permanent constructed gap than the temporary one ( perhaps I will but a small "tundish" arrangement as well as supporting everything properly ) then the white pipe should never get blocked - It will spill over the black pipe if that gets blocked by ice. I tried my " gap " experiment for two sub-zero days and it seems to work really well. The condensate is still relatively warm by the time it gets to the end of the white pipe. Also I believe that the air in the white pipe gets a bit of convection heating from inside.

I'm going to leave everything as it is until the weather warms up a bit - Too cold to work outside at the moment !
 
A DIY low voltage trace heating solution was discussed this morning by Eric, in another similar thread - it only needs a few watts, if inside the pipe, but a double insulating transformer absolutely must be used to supply it. The simple way to automate it, would be to use an ordinary outdoor frost stat, switching the power to the transformer, set to come on <5C.

[EDIT] Sorry it was Bernard's idea.

Bernard should make and market it ! - I would certainly buy one.
 

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