Boiler controls- Modulating/WC vs "smart" thermostats

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Something that maybe the seasoned heating installers can shed some light on.

Ive been watching the development of various smart thermostat systems, Nest, Hive, Tado etc.. and people who go for them for the most part are very happy about their functionality and efficency.

However the one thing all these systems lack as far as i can tell, is temperature modulation in the same way a weather compensating system can - IE Vaillant VRC470.

So - in my case, as i have a VRC470f already - would moving to a smart thermostat actually be a step backwards in efficiency?
I am generally happy with the current setup, as are the cats who love to lie on the nicely warm radiators without them being massively hot. but apart from weather compensation, the controller is a bit basic in functionality, only having an on/off temperature target, so no early morning boost etc.

I know a smart thermostat will have the functionality i desire (and geek factor) - but will i be ultimately sacrificing efficency and perceived comfort provided by a temperature modulating system?

I have also just seen that Vaillant is releasing their own smart thermostat - the "vsmart" - Does anyone have any more info about it? - this might be the middle-ground answer to my geeky/smart itch.
 
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Tado apparently talks to Vaillants. But I don't trust the company as far as I can pee.

Honeywell Evohome will talk to any Opentherm compliant boiler. Including the Vaillant btu that needs a special addon card to work.

VSmart is supposed to be fairly good - but it cheats by using the internet to establish the outside temperature - like Tado.

Which is pretty useless.

The internet tells me that it is 16 degrees outside.

My boiler sensor tells me it is 19 degrees.
 
Are Vaillants actually Opentherm? - i thought they used their own propriatory eBus connection?
 
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Same with Wooshitter Botch.


They don't want you to know this though so that they can sell their overpriced poorly designed (from a user point of view) controls.
 
Atag and evohome doesn't work!
God knows why they badge it as OT then screw the nuts out the access!

Fitting a wave this afternoon, looks good, better than single zone!
 
It certainly has some interesting diagnostics.... up there with the software my 20 year old boiler has ;).

Are you sure it will work with your LMU though?

Remember what you're like with new toys though Lee. I have that job with 7 102's.... if you wait I shall salvage them for you then you can have something LeeC proof as well as having some spares for you "off" days :LOL:



Tuppa-tastic eh? :LOL:
 
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Pretty sure they just took OT then locked it down like Vaillant and no doubt Viessmann did.

Suppose they might have added some features in but why bother develope something that already has 80% of what you want already available for free?
 
Tado apparently talks to Vaillants. But I don't trust the company as far as I can pee.

Honeywell Evohome will talk to any Opentherm compliant boiler. Including the Vaillant btu that needs a special addon card to work.

VSmart is supposed to be fairly good - but it cheats by using the internet to establish the outside temperature - like Tado.

Which is pretty useless.

The internet tells me that it is 16 degrees outside.

My boiler sensor tells me it is 19 degrees.


Dan,
I have the exact same decision as Misterg81. I also have a vaillant (EcoTec 812) and a VRC470. I already have an owl Intuition but cw but I have not installed yet due to the loss of the weather compensation element. I agree with you that an internet derived weather data is no where near as accurate as the sensor on the north wall of my house.
Do you know what the add-on card is called for the vaillant boilers to support OpenTherm compliant products?
Seems strange that the Vaillant Vsmart uses internet based weather data rather than a weather sensor.
 
Thanks Dan.
Is it made by Vaillant? I get no hit on the Vaillant website and only dutch hits on google.
They really dont want anyone to know about this thing!!
 
That's because only the Dutch got excited about Opentherm. Which is why mainly Dutch manufacturers support it, someone once said OT compatibility was a Building Regs compliance matter in the Netherlands.

Whilst you can buy OT adaptors (in the Netherlands, quelle surprise) they are not supported by the UK divisions of Vaillant or Bosch. In fitting one you would also have to be confident that there were no software changes between the boilers sold in that market and the UK.

The other trouble with OT is that it isn't a standard, it is a ratification between a committee of manufacturers representatives. What happened was that no sooner had they agreed than they all started bringing out their own iterations of Opentherm that were nearly to the 'standard' but incorporated extra features.

So the chances of one manufacturer's OT working with another got slimmer. Frankly if you are outside the Netherlands it isn't worth bothering with.

As a heating contractor who installs a lot of smart controls, we installed our first Opentherm on a nameless* Dutch boiler in 2007 and it was a disaster, and that was with the manufacturer encouraging us. They even took pictures of our installation and used it in their sales brochure in the UK. Never again.

*signed an NDA
 

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