Boiler problems ? Not sure

[osprey]

Hi

I have a Saunier Duval Boiler - it was fitted over a year ago in a cupboard in the kitchen. I have two concerns

1) The person who fitted it placed it up against a cupboard wall. The ventilation space is sufficient as far as the instructions go, but I am concerned thatther is no space at all to the left of the boiler as it is flush against a wall. What could happen to my boiler if there is not enough ventilation space, or will it be OK ?

2) The pipes above my boiler and the boiler itself have started making a loud noise when the central heating is switched on. The best way I can describe it is as if the water has got bubbles in it. it sounds like there is air floating round - except it isn't floating around at all, the noise is coming from the boiler and the pipes around it, but nowhere else in the system, Any idea what it is ???

 

[noonespecial]

1. If the boiler instructions state that an air gap is required to the left of the boiler then that is what there should be. Get the installer to correct it or get him to get confirmation from the manufacturer that they will accept it the way that it is.

2. Is the noise like a kettle as it starts to boil? Sounds as though it could be sludge / scale in the boiler or inadequate water flow rate through the boiler.

 

[croydoncorgi]

If the spec says 'no ventilation required' - then that's the case.
I'd be more concerned about acccess for service. Most S-D models can be dealt with mostly through the front but if you can't get the side panels off that can be a PITA.

If it sounds like air in the pipes, it probably is. Needs to be checked out. The boiler should vent itself automatically. If not, then either the auto-vent is off / blocked, or more air / gas is getting in / forming in the system.

 

[osprey]

Yes - I think a kettle would be about the right noise.

What can I do ? How do I increase flow rate ? What can happen to my boiler is there is sludge forming ?



As for the implications of incorrect ventilation, what can happen ??

Questions, questions !!

 

[osprey]

If the spec says 'no ventilation required' - then that's the case.
I'd be more concerned about acccess for service. Most S-D models can be dealt with mostly through the front but if you can't get the side panels off that can be a PITA.

The instruction manual says " The boiler is room sealed and does not require the room or space containing it to have permanent air vents", but then goes on to say "Where the boiler is fitted in a cupboard, permanent high and low level ventilation must be provided" and it gives a table of minimum requirements

Isn't this a contradiction ?

 

[croydoncorgi]

No - it evidently needs case-cooling to protect electronics, etc. from overheating.
Once again, do what the book says!

 

[osprey]

No - it evidently needs case-cooling to protect electronics, etc. from overheating.
Once again, do what the book says!

What are high level and low level vent areas ?

Above and below ??

They are in cm squared not cubed

Not sure - I'm no good at this stuff !!!

 

[noonespecial]

Poor water flow rate could be an air lock, sludge in the system, scale in the boiler, pump failing, someone tampering with valves, pipe damaged, etc - various possibilities. Needs looking at by someone with experience to trouble shoot this.

Was the system completely new a year ago? If so it could be that the installer has cut corners. Do you know if the system was flushed through and chemical inhibitor added? Did you get a boiler log book filled in to confirm this and that the boiler was correctly commissioned?

Can you confirm what you are meaning about incorrect ventilation? Is it that the cupboard does not have ventilation openings or are you concerned about the space left by the side of the boiler and that you feel air may not find it's way into the boiler?

If the boiler is balanced flued air does not need to (and will not) get into the boiler. ventilation of the cupboard containing the boiler will be required though to satisfy manufacturer's recommendations, British Standards and also ultimately if these have not been complied with the Gas Safety Regs. Boiler manufacturer's recommendations must always be complied with.

 

[noonespecial]

What ventilation openings does the manual state as being required in cm squared or inches squared?

Have you got any openings in the cupboard which air can pass through? If so where located and what size?

 

[osprey]

Thanks mate

In response to your questions

1) I have had problems with air lock in the system before - wonder iof this is that

2) The system was completely flushed and an inhibitor added when it was fitted. We had a problem with the boiler when it was first fitted and 'Homecall' - Saunier Duval's care team came out to look at it - they said that they could not service it because of its position

3) I'm concerned about the left hand side. The spaces to the right above and below conform to the instructions, but the left side is against a cupboard wall. Clearings should be 10cm above (which it is), 60 cm below (which it is) and only 6mm to the sides - only one side clears by more than that - the LHS is only 1 mm !!! What can happen - that's my question ?? Would it blow up for example ?

4) The boiler is a fanned flue boiler - does that keep air out ? I have a Carbon Monoxide tester and there is nothing escaping at all, the boiler does get hot - but boilers do don't they ?


This kettle sound is my biggest concern - is it more likely to be the pipes or the boiler itself ??

 

[osprey]

What ventilation openings does the manual state as being required in cm squared or inches squared?

Have you got any openings in the cupboard which air can pass through? If so where located and what size?

High and Low should both be 132 cm squared from the room - what does that mean ?

 

[croydoncorgi]

High and Low should both be 132 cm squared from the room - what does that mean

For example, a hole 12cm by 11cm. What's unclear???

The type of flue (fan-assisted or otherwise) is NOTHING to do with the room-ventilation requirement (which as I told you already) is ONLY for cooling the casing and boiler internals. Your boiler (or specifically the combustion chamber) is room-sealed. No combustion products can get into the room. Carbon monoxide is a non-issue.

 

[osprey]

High and Low should both be 132 cm squared from the room - what does that mean

For example, a hole 12cm by 11cm. What's unclear???

So, there has to be a hole above the boiler of 132 cm squared, or a hole into the cupboard ??

 

[croydoncorgi]

Good grief!!!
A hole at the top and a hole at the bottom!

 

[osprey]

Good grief!!!
A hole at the top and a hole at the bottom!

I'm a maths teacher

I understand the measurements, I just wondered what it meant by high and low - if it meant space above the boiler and below - or a hole in the cupboard door of that measurement - I'll get me coat !!!!