Borrowed neutral problem

[oharaf]

I am approaching the finish of a partial re-wire.

The customer has only had the down stairs lights and ring final replaced.

No problem splitting the upstairs and down stairs rings.

I have also managed to split the lighting circuits, to a fashion.

The only problem I now have is the 2 way switching for the landing light.

the OLD lighting circuit had been done in single and with twin no earth.

All the lights were fed from a junction box stuffed under the floor upstairs I have supplied a new feed for up stairs.

At the landing switch there is a RED single and a twin (red and black which goes to the hall switch)

I need to keep this as 2 way, but I am struggling to see how I can get round the borrowed neutral.

Is there anything I can do, or will it have to wait until they re-wire the upstairs lights?

All advice greatly recieved

 

[Spark123]

The only way to do away with the borrowed neutral scenario is to have both phase and neutral supplied from the same circuit, this means either running a phase from upstairs ckt to the downstairs light switch or running the downstairs neutral up to this one light.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[oharaf]

Thought this was the only way! Not that easy under the circumstances, will have a look tomorrow however, cheers

 

[17thman]

i picked up this from somone on this site a few weeks ago, does the representation help with an answer

 

[ban-all-sheds]

running a phase from upstairs ckt to the downstairs light switch

By that do you mean replace the drop from the light to the upstairs switch with T/E, and the strapper to the downstairs switch with 3C/E?

If not, that's a 3rd way.

514.11.1


BTW - 17thman - I don't think oharaf's problem is that he doesn't know what a borrowed neutral is....

 

[17thman]

BAS, I would not even to think to infer oharaf does not know that. The representation was to to help as he asked how to overcome the problem. If he is fitting a new "17th board" then 314.1 will need to be temporarily and permanently resolved. The schematic seemed to replocate oharafs issue, he can take it or leave it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS, I would not even to think to infer oharaf does not know that. The representation was to to help as he asked how to overcome the problem.

It shows what he's got, not a fix, hence my comment....

 

[17thman]

A picture tells a thousand words, and it does represent his issue. I note your constructive? answers. Do you presume that I can answer and resolve all problems from an armchair Oharaf is quite cabable and you are inferring that he needs to have it spelt out. I thought this forum was based on honest, professional,help and advice. Where have you helped the OP? Can you give oharaf the exact answer from your armchair

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A picture tells a thousand words, and it does represent his issue.

Indeed it does.

But I didn't think that oharaf didn't understand what his problem was, only that he was looking for suggestions on how to resolve it.

So when you posted a picture which only described what his problem was, and didn't give any suggestions on how to resolve it I said what I did.

And you agreed that it was not the case that oharaf didn't understand what his problem was:

BAS, I would not even to think to infer oharaf does not know that.

Oharaf is quite cabable and you are inferring that he needs to have it spelt out.

Err - no - YOU are the one implying that he needs to have it spelled out by posting a picture which just spells out what he has.

I didn't assume that he needed what a borrowed neutral was explained to him, and I didn't post a diagram which did that. You did.

I thought this forum was based on honest, professional,help and advice. Where have you helped the OP?

Depending on what Spark123 meant I may have given him a 3rd suggestion of how to resolve it, or I may have helped clarify a suggestion already made.

But since you have said that you wouldn't even think to infer (sic) that oharaf's problem is that he doesn't know what a borrowed neutral is, I think it's a bit rich for you to ask where I have provided constructive help when all you have done is post a diagram which only shows what a borrowed neutral is, despite the fact that you didn't think oharaf needed that explanation...

 

[17thman]

i rest my case

 

[ban-all-sheds]

From the Cambridge Idioms Dictionary:

I rest my case.
something that you say when someone says or does something that proves the truth of something you have just said

So I can't for the life of me see why you wrote it....

 

[17thman]

I note your constructive? answers.

QED

 

[ban-all-sheds]

At least I provided one which might have been:

running a phase from upstairs ckt to the downstairs light switch

By that do you mean replace the drop from the light to the upstairs switch with T/E, and the strapper to the downstairs switch with 3C/E?

If not, that's a 3rd way.

514.11.1

Unlike you, who only provided something which you knew was of no use whatsoever.

 

[Spark123]

There are a couple of ways to "run the correct phase to the switch", you could do as BAS says and wire it as you would a new light, you could run a phase from the CU to the switch however technically you shouldn't do the this approach if your wires are in metal conduit - in reality it won't be any worse than it was.