boundary dispute - Garden party wall and fence

[panlondon]

Hi,

I have semi detached garage with my neighbour, see picture attached.

According to a recent party wall agreement, (2 years old), the virtual red line runs in the middle of the common garage wall as I would expect. At the back of the garage where the new fence will be erected there is a brick wall around 2m long which is clearly on the side of my neighbour, ie not running from the middle of the common garage wall. The garage wall is 10cm wide so 5cm will be the middle where i would expect the red boundary line to be. After this 2m long wall we have a very large garden where my neighbour wants to erect the fence (his responsibility). My neighbour is arguing that the boundary is wrong and he wants to take the 2m wall down and bring the fence into my side, actually he things that 8.8cm of the garage wall belongs to him and only 1.2cm is mine = total 8.8 +1.2 = 10cm. Won't even try to explain why 8.8 for him. There is also a single brick support pillar at the end of the 2m long wall, 10cm wide.

He is basically refusing to back down threatening that he will not erect the fence otherwise. What are my options here. I understand that if a brick wall exists for more than 10 years it is evidence and admission that that part is mine anyway and also he can not take it down without a party wall agreement in place. I am basically happy to give him few centimetres to build the fence but not 8.8, 1.2cm to his favour. I am not happy for him to destroy the wall, he has already removed some bricks!

The deeds also show the red line in the middle of the 2 garages, but it's hard to have an accuracy of few cms to be fair.

I have attached a pic (not to scale) that explains the situation and. Where do you think the boundary of the new fence should be and what are my rights regarding the brick wall?

Thanks very much for any advice.

 

[ktuludays]

What do your deeds show as the boundary?

 

[panlondon]

The deeds show a red line in the middle of the 2 garages, hard to have accuracy of 5cm cm on deeds to be fair. But but neighbour is insisting that 8.8cm is his and 1.2cm is mine. Not 5cm and 5cm. Also the fact that the existing 2m long brick wall has been there for decades and it's well within his side doesn't prove the fact that we have to respect this boundary line. He basically wants to take this brick wall down (he already took bits of it down without informing me) and come 8.8cm into my side. Thank you.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

The deeds show a red line in the middle of the 2 garages, hard to have accuracy of 5cm cm on deeds to be fair. But but neighbour is insisting that 8.8cm is his and 1.2cm is mine. Not 5cm and 5cm. Also the fact that the existing 2m long brick wall has been there for decades and it's well within his side doesn't prove the fact that we have to respect this boundary line. He basically wants to take this brick wall down (he already took bits of it down without informing me) and come 8.8cm into my side. Thank you.

Please correct me if I have misunderstood the situation, but are you both arguing over 3.8cm (5 - 1.8cm ) also known as 1.5 inches?

 

[panlondon]

Not exactly. He wants to come on my side of the existing 2m long brick wall by about 8.5cm which means he then wants to demolish that wall and bring it into mine. I know crazy but that's my neighbour's approach. Ultimately the that wall has been there for 50 years I guess so it can not move even if it was in the wrong place which it isn't. Thanks.

 

[Nige F]

Well I've got a Nice but Dim neighbour who came over 3" with a fence post meaning I had to cut some slabs. The rest of the fence wanders like a dogs hind leg. But I've got a shed next to the fence @ over 2.5m from ground level. Quid pro quo? and no disputes to report when the place is sold.

 

[Halitosis]

I don't know the legalities, but it appears the existing wall has always been on his side of the boundary, and doubt that (just because its been there 10 years) you can claim that it now determines the boundary. To be honest, if my neighbour offered to pay for/build a new fence then I'd be happy to ceed the couple of inches in dispute. I understand that it is usual for the fence posts to be set on a boundary, so inches can even be won or lost depending on whose side of the posts the slats are placed.
I'd rather have civil neighbourly relations than a garden 3 inches wider

 

[panlondon]

I don't know the legalities, but it appears the existing wall has always been on his side of the boundary, and doubt that (just because its been there 10 years) you can claim that it now determines the boundary. To be honest, if my neighbour offered to pay for/build a new fence then I'd be happy to ceed the couple of inches in dispute. I understand that it is usual for the fence posts to be set on a boundary, so inches can even be won or lost depending on whose side of the posts the slats are placed.
I'd rather have civil neighbourly relations than a garden 3 inches wider

OK but the problem is he wants to destroy the current party wall and move it towards my side which also means i will have no access to the back of my shed if he does that. My problem is that he want to destroy the wall and does not take any evidence from the wall or even the documents. It is his responsibility to build the fence, not really making me a favour. Thanks.

 

[Halitosis]

But if the wall is entirely on his land, doesn't that mean it isn't a 'party wall' and he has every right to destroy it as he wishes (as long as he doesn't damage your property in the process).
Why it is his responsibility alone to build the fence? Usually a fence is paid for jointly by both parties unless the deeds specify it as being owned by one or the other.
He does sound unreasonable in his claim over the extra 3.8cm.

 

[IT Minion]

Get photos of the current layout now to show the existing wall. Might be fun to get some aerial drone photos as well.

You could build a small brick BBQ just your side of the wall, that'll stump his plan to nick your land.

 

[Stivino]

I think you need a lawyer.

 

[conny]

I think you both need to calmly sit down and agree a course of action to suit you both.
If I were a judge at a court case over this I would simply tell you both to regard the boundary line as being in the centre of the garage internal dividing wall.
I can't see any judicial person agreeing one person to have 8.8cm and one having 1.2cm. It's just ludicrous. Regarding the wall, if the outer edge was built on the 'true' boundary line many years ago then legally you could claim that is the true boundary line and the internal garage wall is built on your side of the line and his garage ends against the internal face of the wall in his garage.
This is how things can get complicated in a court and a lawyer/solicitor is the only one smiling because they will make money out of it.
Do the sensible thing and agree to agree that the boundary runs down the centre line of the garage wall, as indicated on the 2 year old party wall agreement.