British Gas - not allowed to leave old parts on site?

[transam]

Can't say I'm surprised at Transam's reluctence to the thought of LABC calling to inspect new

You may well find that there will be a reluctance by many rgi's to notify building control at all , due to what may be a lack of trust , what do these organisation's do with the imformation ??? in particular the notification of boiler's ???

when Corgi ran the gas reg scheme they made it a condition of registration that all gas boiler's installed had to be notified or registered with them , you had to state when it was installed , who installed it , the make of boiler installed , type of house , address of were it was installed , which generally included the name of the householder !!! & for this we payed them a fee!!!!!

They stated some nonsense about safety !! although it only concerned boiler's in domestic property , not commercial or domestic boiler's installed in commercial building's !!! It now transpire's that Corgi are now useing that imformation or list for commercial purpose's by targetting customer's with insurance backed up by the well known Corgi brand !!
A total disgrace !!!

They know when the boiler warranty expire's , they even know what type of boiler you had previuosly , they know what type of house you live in !!

 

[jimhet]

Forgive me for not shedding any tears transam, but its good to know its not only the customer that's being ripped off. I guess if the so called state of the art boilers we're being pawned off with lasted any length of time before needing shed loads of money thrown at them, the after sales scam wouldn't be so lucratative. I wonder sometimes if PCBs have a built in electronic device to cause it to fail soon after the gaurantee expires, if not maybe its an idea for the future.

 

[wsts]

Ok this is an easy one for me to answer as a company I worked for was stung by a customer who was a solicitor on this exact subject.

Simple fact, the part NEVER becomes the property of the repairer unless the deal is an exchange or under warranty, and this was confirmed by the company solicitors , this applies to both paid for repairs or insurance repairs as under law the insurance payment is classed the same as if the customer themselves have paid.

The customer had a £800 part fitted while he was away on holiday through an insurance plan, when he returned he phoned and asked where the old part was, he was told that the engineer had disposed of it, customer insisted he wanted the part and was told it was thrown and there was nothing they could do, customer sent in letter threatening legal action, company solicitors confirmed that company was in the wrong and that settlement was required, company had to give the customer a new £800 part to replace the part that was taken, all engineers (me included) were then informed of the legal requirements and told not to take anything but in warranty parts away from customers houses in future.

Btw this is a multi million pound company using top solicitors.

 

[transam]

Yes I will forgive you & tears are not required rip off depend's who you mean by the customer , we are all customer's even installer's who have been ripped off by boiler manufacturer's for year's , not unlike car owner's !!! boiler manu's is, probably in-accurate assembler's may be closer to the mark??? or a more accurate desciption take some one else's part put it in your packaging & hike the price up by what ??? 100% ???

What Corgi or any other organisation choose to offer any one is a matter for them however I would suggest that there is an issue on the mis-use of information which should not occur ??? I would also suggest that the day's of the small independant trader be it in boiler installation or any other walk of life are numbered , eventually you will only be left with the large trader's or those who have finacial muscle British gas , Homeserve maybe Corgi ?? who know's same thing will happen to small garage's but via a different tactic !! And that I would suggest will have consequence's for all !!
Sell something by all mean's but do not use my identity to do it !!!

 

[nickso]

Ok this is an easy one for me to answer as a company I worked for was stung by a customer who was a solicitor on this exact subject.

Simple fact, the part NEVER becomes the property of the repairer unless the deal is an exchange or under warranty, and this was confirmed by the company solicitors , this applies to both paid for repairs or insurance repairs as under law the insurance payment is classed the same as if the customer themselves have paid.

The customer had a £800 part fitted while he was away on holiday through an insurance plan, when he returned he phoned and asked where the old part was, he was told that the engineer had disposed of it, customer insisted he wanted the part and was told it was thrown and there was nothing they could do, customer sent in letter threatening legal action, company solicitors confirmed that company was in the wrong and that settlement was required, company had to give the customer a new £800 part to replace the part that was taken, all engineers (me included) were then informed of the legal requirements and told not to take anything but in warranty parts away from customers houses in future.

Btw this is a multi million pound company using top solicitors.

any idea why he wanted it?

 

[jimhet]

If it were compulsory for all new boiler installations to be checked/tested by LABC, they would automaticlly be registered with the Local Authority direct, without any need to notify Corgi or Gas Safe who would then become almost redundent overnight. The likes of BG, Corgi, etc always had a vested interest in pushing for a registration scheme rather than bringing gas installations under the control of LABC and it had as much to do with getting rid of the competition as it did with safety, initially DIYers and employees undertaking private jobs were the targets but sole traders have long since come into the radar.

 

[transam]

Maybe ??? but I don't have alot of faith in my local authority ?? they would need to employ numerous rgi's to check out & test the work assuming that you could overcome the logistic's ??? & what would they be checking for safety issue's as well as compliance with current building reg's for domestic boiler install's , this in itself could & would cause problem's !!& added expense for customer's ???

It is assumed of course that the labc would not use any imformation for commercial purpose's in the future ??? If one is really interested in safety there are other intiative's that could be adopted ?? If one abided with every rule & regulation that is written that cover's our working day most of us would probably not get out of bed in the mornong & when I say us I do not mean just installer's !!!!! this country is drowning under the weight of ever more rule's & reg's written by some pen pusher who spend's all his working day looking for problem's & if they cannot find one they probably invent one in order to justify there job ???

 

[jimhet]

Ye of little faith, I'm sure if an experienced RGI was stood on his head and blindfolded [ not that I recommend it ] , when inspecting he would still be able to pick up on bad workmanship/practice. everyone knows there is enough of it around. I help maintain a block of 5 flats converted around 1975 from 2 large [4 storey] Georgian houses in Camden. The origional contractor run 15mm pipes [it was the 1970s] from meters to each flat in order to supply a boiler and cooker and the distances range between 15-25 metres from meter to boilers. In the last 2 years boilers have been replaced in 3 of the flats, all of the flat owners chose Combis
all used RGI installers, but all different installers. RGI 1 and 2 installed 28KW Vaillant's, no attempt to upgrade 15mm pipe, no bonding by either, RGI 3 again went for 28KW Vaillant, fitted a Magnaclean, bonded the pipework and run 2 metres of 28mm pipe from meter position, but must have run out of money, time. or ideas because he then connected the 28mm onto the existing 15mm. Running new supplies would not be easy but by no means impossible and I don't suppose either installation is catostrophic but had they been inspected, all 3 installations would probably be condemded, it would be nice to think these installation are exceptional but in truth they amount to a few pebbles on beach full of pebbles. Finally, its a little known fact that when Tony Blair made his Education Education Education speech, he was meant to say Regulation Regulation Regulation.

 

[transam]

Again would not disagree , but you are talking gas reg's here , a complaint to corgi at the time or gas safe providing it is no more than 6 years old could result in a notice being issued to the installer compelling him to put it right !! there service for this is free of charge !!!!!

I visited yesterday a 78 year old lady living in a 2 bedroom flat who require's a new boiler she had a price from one well known organisation for £4300 + vat , as well as a new boiler she was told in order to comply with building reg's she would need a new cylinder , trv's on all radiator's , even though she does not want it !!! & does not want to pay for them

they refuse to renew the boiler ect only , as it would not comply with building reg's , what should one do ??? put a new boiler in for her at half the cost say ??? not bother about the additional upgrade's , what would the labc reaction to it be ???

When the labc inspector or those working for the labc come around to inspect various job's , what will they do visual inspection ?? not going to lift floor board's remove boxing's ect ect , put atightness test on , would the labc inspector's be like service agent's for the labc , in other word's self employed installer's ?? opurtuniy's would arise would they not ?? foot in the door , pinch a few client's run the installer down , look hard enough u will find something wrong , there is one well known boiler manu' who has or does engage service agent's who have & do behave in such away

 

[jimhet]

Complain to Corgi or Gas Safe !, 99% of customer wouldn't know what size the gas feed should be and would'nt recognise the difference between 15mm and 28mm if it were to jump up and bite them, unless you're suggesting the likes of me sneak around like some sort of peeping Tom cum whistleblower looking for and reporting bad workmanship, not that Gorgi/Gas Safe would take notice because as with NICEIC [electrics]the complaint must come from the customer. Are you also seriously suggesting that because a 78 year old lady doesn't want a new insulated hot water cylinder[ that would prabably pay for itself in less than 5 years] installed, the whole gas industry should trundle along without any on site checks save for maybe 1 every 5 years or so, which if at all, is generally carried out by thier own organisation. If so perhaps Gas Safe should consider changing thier stickers/transfers to one with a photo of Tommy Cooper or Cocoa the clown.

 

[Agile]

The Building Regulation advice about changing cylinders uses the word "should".

Thats usually interpreted as meaning the customer can decline and still have a new boiler. I always ensure that the recomendation that it is changed has been given to the customer in writing.

Tony

 

[transam]

Complain to Corgi or Gas Safe !, 99% of c

I merely used the 78 year old lady as an example , the fact that sonething may pay for itself is irrelavent she probably wo'nt be here in 5 years time ??? & even if she was it has got nothing to do with it , although I must admit your scheme about compulsory labc does have some merit , all customer's would be compelled by law to have every upgrade that is neccesary to bring any system up to the appropriate standard's , I dare say it would go down well with general public !!
We couldeven have compulsory water board inspection.s for domestic property , same as they do for industrial/ commercial building.s all those inspected would be given a time to rectify any ncs , there after they would incur a daily fine . The whole point of self certification is because the labc would not be able to cope !!

the corgi / gas -safe scheme's were set up to protect the consumer , funded by the installation industry , they are not a trade organisation the electrical organisation's are a trade organisation as i undrstand it electricin's are not compelled by law to join them !!! have yet to here of any spark's being jailed for non membership ??? & continuing to work as a spark's ???? Gas safe are running the scheme for the H.S.E !!

The like's of you ??? as I understand it you look after a building what you choose to do or not is a matter for you , if you have evidence or concern's about safety issue's than as a responsible person you should act accordingly , as for complaint's to gas safe they do take any concern's brought by the general public seriously gas safe inspector's are not my freind's or any other installer's freind !!
I have been the reciepent of 3 complaint's over the year's , all of which were money motivated E.g we are not happy we want a new boiler as this one broke down ect ect & when you refuse or will not role over a complaint is made
As for tommy Cooper or Coa coa the clown , that would describe most local council's & many in there employ ( not all ) who suffer from a general lack of common sense !!

 

[jimhet]

Alas transam, whereas your 78 year old woman was only imaginary, the 3 RGIs I mentioned are only too real.

 

[transam]

Alas transam, whereas your 78 year old woman was only imaginary, the 3 RGIs I mentioned are only too real.

I can asure you the 78 year old customer is not imaginary , will be changing her boiler in the next 3 week's , will not be changing cylinder or fitting trv's , LABC will be most upset

 

[Agile]

I must admit your scheme about compulsory labc does have some merit , all customer's would be compelled by law to have every upgrade that is neccesary to bring any system up to the appropriate standard's , I dare say it would go down well with general public !!

There is a very good reason why that would not be a good idea.

We need every energysaving effort that we can get to reduce CO² emissions. New boilers help a lot and many people can only afford the boiler at first. the rest can follow later.

Tony