BSA Hotspur Oil Boiler

[Ponsonby]

Hello. I have a problem with a good old Hotspur. It will not ignite. There's plenty of spark and the oil seems to be delivering ok (see YouTube attachment below ) but it will not ignite.



Perhaps it isn't atomising properly but with the amount of fuel flying around I'm surprised there's not some ignition! In case the fuel had been corrupted on its way from the outside tank, I shut off the input to the OCV under the Hotspur, emptied the OCV and topped it up with fresh fuel from the outside tank. No difference, of course. Perhaps it's the quality of the igniter?
The reason I'm working on the Hotspur is because the owner is 100 years of age and has been in her house for 70 years and when she goes her house will just be ripped apart!

Thanks.

When trying to attach an mp4 file I eventually found out that Diynot doesn't accept them. I've sent the file to YouTube.
Video link

 

[Exedon]

May be time to put it out of its misery no parts available.
Wallflame burners can be dangerous things especially when they are getting old and don't ignite properly.
I know of at least 3 that required fire brigade attendance.

 

[Terrywookfit]

The spark should strike the flame ring not the grille.
It was normal for a hole to be eroded at this point,. Repair clips were used.
the spark should be crisp and blue like an arc weld

 

[oilhead]

I can't see much oil being deposited so wonder whether there is sufficient. Is it time to check the rotor mounting for wear and slow running?

 

[Terrywookfit]

I watched the video again .......... That Kero looks suspiciously like H2O.

If the tank is same vintage as boiler and recent weather is taken into consideration!!
Check OCV filter and whilst removed run a few pints into clear bottles. Or dip tank with water paste.

 

[Ponsonby]

Hi Terry. Sorry about the length of time it's taken to reply to your replies. The old girl's flying again thanks to your help. When I bent the flame ring forward 2 years ago there was no problem with its igniting and it's been worked ok since (until now). When I bent the 2 or 3 flame rings forward to be nearer the sparker 2 years ago I did not bend up the edges of the 2 or 3 grilles to keep them level with the other 16 or 17 grilles. The reason I bent the flame rings forward rather than bend the Sparker forward is because I did not want to risk damaging the Sparker's construction. If that happpend, that would have been it.
The reason I came to a stop this time is because in the forum in 2013 it said: (Ensure the spark electrode is slightly below the level of the heat spreaders) which it was, and the sparker was less than 3/8" from the flame ring. Even with the grille above the sparker removed there was still no ignition. (see Without grille.jpg).
Actually, I had been working from above (I have long arms) and noticed a clip-on piece over the flame ring next to where the the sparker was striking. I thought it was a clip to be used on the flame ring that the Sparker was hitting and only when I looked in from the front did I realise that it was a repair clip covering a previously burnt hole. (see Burn Hole.jpg) The repair clip was obvious a properly manufactured one and has been there for at least 15-20 years! (see Repair Clip.jpg) The hole is some way left from the Sparker. Perhaps the repairman had swopped the two Flame rings over. Anyway, the Repair Clip is back where it belongs. Seeing the position of the the hole in the flame ring I could see where the Sparker should be hitting and I decided, with great care, and two pairs of pliers, to bend the sparker down slightly to hit the flame ring lower down. Then I bent up the 2 or 3 grilles to be level with the other 16 or so grilles and installed them all back on the flame ring so that there is a definite gap between the grilles above the sparker. Put everything back together, turned on the time switch and she fired up straight away and has been working well for about 2-3 days now!
Thanks again Terry for your help and also Oilhead. Actually, Oilhead, the Toridheet assembly was next to be investigated. Not necessary now. If anybody wants photos of the BSA Hotspur, let me know.

 

[Martindyna]

Hi. Just noticed your post. I'm a self confessed oil boiler anorak having moved to a new housing estate in June 1959 with my parents when I was 2½ that featured oil fired central heating that `required no stoking'. The house featured a Wilson boiler that was launched in 1957 and had a vapourising wick modulating burner similar to that in an oil fired Aga cooker, the maximum output was 35,000 BTU/hr (10.26 kW). It was partial central heating, only the main double bedroom had a radiator although it was a 3 bedroom house. There was a heated towel rail in the bathroom.
Anyway, enough waffling ! I am amazed you have a Hotspur boiler still in working order. I think they were the Rolls-Royce wallflame oil boiler in the UK in the 60s / 70s and the only manufacturer, I believe, that bothered to insulate the boiler shell with fibreglass wool or similar. Even the flame grilles in your video look like they would last forever, I guess the original Torridheat burner was made to last longer than the Landon Kingsway ones fitted to other makes of boiler.
Anyway you mentioned if anyone would like to see some pictures of the Hotspur to let you know and I certainly would love to see the boiler and know what size it is. They were very generously designed and physically big, I remember a neighbour had the original 1950s boiler replaced by a Hotspur 80 which dominated the kitchen and was very economical on oil. Interestingly another neighbour installed a Redfyre Centrajet boiler which he later changed to gas fired just by swapping the burners (due to the 70s oil crisis). My email address is [email protected] or by all means just post on here if you prefer.

 

[Ponsonby]

Hello Martin.
I went into DiyNot to look for a Bosch cooker problem and saw the 'Alerts' sign up with your message there. I assumed that Diynot would send an email to me when there was a response but it does not seem so.
The Hotspur is still runniing well, but my friend died in July '24 and I'm clearing the house at the moment. She reached 100 years! There's about 400 litres left in the fuel tank and I'm eaking it out to cover this winter while I work in the house. The house is to be sold and of course everything will be ripped out by the new owner and the Hotspur will go on the skip!

 

[ChrisJP]

I have a Worcester Danesmoor 15/19 oil boiler dating from 1983 that is still going strong, though over the years it's had several replacement control boxes, photocells and motors, plus an oil pump and igniter. It's very easy to work on and replacement parts are still available - though I haven't tried to source any over the last year or so. It's from an era when Worcester boilers were high quality - not so sure about their modern offerings.
Like the Toridheat boiler, the case around the boiler was insulated with glass fibre from new, but oddly the back of the case wasn't. I've remedied this myself.

 

[oilhead]

Danesmoors are a totally different proposition. As long as the boiler itself is sound, there are generic components for everything else that may fail.

 

[Exedon]

As above pj burners different beast, if gets to crunch you can always fit a different burner we keep a selection especially for this time of year.
When I first started this God forsaken job one of first boilers I helped fit was a Wilson Wallflame another semi automatic vaporiser.

 

[Martindyna]

Hello Martin.
I went into DiyNot to look for a Bosch cooker problem and saw the 'Alerts' sign up with your message there. I assumed that Diynot would send an email to me when there was a response but it does not seem so.
The Hotspur is still runniing well, but my friend died in July '24 and I'm clearing the house at the moment. She reached 100 years! There's about 400 litres left in the fuel tank and I'm eaking it out to cover this winter while I work in the house. The house is to be sold and of course everything will be ripped out by the new owner and the Hotspur will go on the skip!

Hi Ponsonby,


I got an email advising of your reply fine so perhaps you need to check the DiyNot Settings or your Spam?
Sorry to hear of your friends passing but she had a very good innings didn't she !
Sad to think of the boiler in a skip but you're probably right. You could try the Science Museum or Milestones in Basingstoke but I'm not sure they'd be interested. Sectioning it for display would be cool but a lot of work !
Presumably, being in London, you have mains Gas there so amazing it wasn't replaced by a Gas boiler in the 70s. Apparently someone realised that Oil prices would come down again.
Thanks a lot for the photos ! Looks like yours is a Hotspur 60 from the nameplate.
If you've got the time it would be great to have a photo of the heat exchanger arrangement towards the top of the boiler with the retarder / top plate removed. Probably similar to the Wilson Wallflames .... quite simple up to 75,000 BTU/hr ?? with larger models up to 150,000 BTU/hr having fire tubes (I know this because a friend's parents lived in a small mansion when i was a kid and there was a Wilson Wallflame 150 in the kitchen with a huge asbestos cement chimney lol)

Interesting point on Human Error happended with the Wilson 150. When they were going to move in they got a neighbour to have a look at the boiler since they had a smaller Wallflame themselves. The neighbour had a look at the 150 and noted a lot of brown soot deposits in the burner area (refractory area) which he cleaned with a dustpan & brush and fired it up. He increased the air to give a blue flame with some yellow tongues.
When they moved in they had a Service Technician attend to service it properly. He saw the state of the boiler, with thick deposits of brown soot which he cleaned and then he further increased the air to give a nearly entirely blue flame. This is incorrect for a Wallflame (requiring too much excess air that cools the products of combustion down).
More modern burners have a clean flame with higher CO2 readings than the Wallflame could attain (high CO2 indicates less excess air). I believe that this is because a Pressure Jet burner (Gun type American) atomises the oil to a fine mist while the Wallflame produced small droplets of Kerosine. Mind you it must be remembered that the Wallflame burner is a late 1940s design by Timken USA (presumably the bearing people).
Howden Engineering of Scotland improved on the Wallflame with their Dynaflame burner that produced an entirely blue flame with a relatively high CO2 reading btw. This burner was used by Worcester in their Firefly HDII oil fired boilers when their stocks of the Wallflame were exhausted. It can be seen on YouTube if interested.

I applied this Human Error experience to when I bought a second hand car and the front tyres were badly worn due to bad tracking. I emphasised to the Garage that the car drives & coasts so well that the bad tracking must be historical so to bear this in mind when checking the tracking.
They didn't adjust the tracking and it's fine.



With best regards,
Martin

 

[diy-yes-do123]

Hello. I have a problem with a good old Hotspur. It will not ignite. There's plenty of spark and the oil seems to be delivering ok (see YouTube attachment below ) but it will not ignite.

View attachment 329912 View attachment 329911 View attachment 329913

Perhaps it isn't atomising properly but with the amount of fuel flying around I'm surprised there's not some ignition! In case the fuel had been corrupted on its way from the outside tank, I shut off the input to the OCV under the Hotspur, emptied the OCV and topped it up with fresh fuel from the outside tank. No difference, of course. Perhaps it's the quality of the igniter?
The reason I'm working on the Hotspur is because the owner is 100 years of age and has been in her house for 70 years and when she goes her house will just be ripped apart!

Thanks.

When trying to attach an mp4 file I eventually found out that Diynot doesn't accept them. I've sent the file to YouTube.
Video link

Easy to fix. Your spark is too low. Get some pliers and raise the spark up into the area where it is being jetted by the jet fuel, then it will be toasty. You will not be able to get the front back on quick enough.