BT phone line/service 'upgrade'

[morqthana]

Correct.

There are no new copper PSTN services, they have been unavailable for over 2 years, the last orders for such things were in 2023.
Those people that already have one and also have ADSL / VDSL or some other broadband product delivered over copper are already being migrated to VoIP service, which for the majority just involves unplugging the phone from the Openreach socket and plugging it into the broadband router instead. Some might receive a new router as part of that, although most routers provided in the last several years already have the socket for a telephone.

For a tiny minority of devices which inexplicably still require ye olde copper phone line which is powered 24/7, there is a bizarre product called SOTAP Analogue, which is basically an ATA installed in the street cabinet so that at the consumer end it looks like an old phone line, powered from the cabinet, but converted to VoIP in the cabinet and then carried over fibre. That won't be available for long, it's only intended for the few ancient devices such as security systems and emergency 'I've fallen and can't get up' calling affairs - all of which should have been replaced with modern equivalents years ago anyway.

Any requests for new service will be provisioned as VoIP. The vast majority of those will be a broadband product with the 'landline' as a add on product if people want it.
For the tiny minority who want a 'landline' but do not want Internet access of any kind, they will get a cut down router which only has facilities for a phone, which can either be some old style piece plugged in, or more likely a modern item which connects direct to the router via DECT. Such services will be extremely limited (as in most providers won't offer them), and they will be expensive.

As for the competition - Virgin Media stopped provisioning voice services over copper years ago, all of those are the same plug the phone into the router deal.
Others such as City Fibre and Gigaclear only operate fibre networks, so there never was any copper option there and never will be.

All of that is true, and I'm not being a luddite, but..

For a tiny minority of devices which inexplicably still require ye olde copper phone line which is powered 24/7,

That "tiny minority" of devices includes all the people who really would inexplicably (well, actually, no, not inexplicably) like their phone to carry on working during power cuts.

The loss of which I'd thought was an "unfortunate but that's the way it is, sadly" until I found that BT could, if they wished, have offered a powered-from-the-cabinet analogue phone service.

For the tiny minority who want a 'landline' but do not want Internet access of any kind, they will get a cut down router which only has facilities for a phone, which can either be some old style piece plugged in, or more likely a modern item which connects direct to the router via DECT. Such services will be extremely limited (as in most providers won't offer them), and they will be expensive.

Which is what I thought I had read, but could no longer find (see #64), and was confirmed in the chat session with BT earlier today

But this "temporary" solution doesn't involve any free hub or ATA on the customer's premises, it uses what's in the cabinet (either this SOTAP ATA or the hypothesised ability of DSLAMs to generate an analogue phone signal), and if they can offer that to people who don't have BT broadband why can't they offer it to people who do?

 

[JohnW2]

You are wanting the impossible... The FTTP, is broadband data only. VoIP is the only way to have a phone line, and VoIP needs the broadband data to work. There is no discount for not using it.

You seem to be being silly, perhaps for the sake of it, since I'm sure that you know what I meant ...

... yes, obviously, VoIP can only work when there is an "IP" and hence requires an Internet connection (theoretically, not necessarily 'broadband', but I doubt that any other means of connection to Internet any longer exists!). So, yes, I was obviously not talking about people not prepared to have a 'broadband connection' (which, as yousay, would be 'the impossible' if they wanted a phone) but, rather, of those who didn't want/need a broadband connection for any reason other than to allow them to continue having a 'telephone'.

 

[JohnW2]

I don't think the data is out there yet, as to what a FTTP with phone connection only, would cost.

That's what I keep saying, but some seem to ;persist in arguing with me

If anyone was likely to get this, it was John, but he seams to have escaped it for now

Me ?

 

[JohnW2]

Openreach have been increasing prices for copper products to encourage the stragglers.

Openreach Raises Prices on Copper Lines to Boost UK Fibre Broadband Adoption

Openreach has today announced above inflation price hikes on some of their older copper-based line products for UK internet and phone providers, which are desig

www.ispreview.co.uk

To 'encourage' who to do what? My phone still works over a copper connection because that is what (all) BT has provided me with.

Are you suggesting that Openreach are 'encouraging' BT to change that situation, or what?

 

[JohnW2]

So, cut-off of the copper stragglers, will maybe be as soon as Dec 2025, or possibly 31st January 2027, if you have a valid reason to delay the switch to FTTC. John, best make your mind up.

If that's a reference to me, what are you suggesting I need to 'make my mind up' about?

 

[JohnW2]

BT phone only (no internet) using VOIP is £30.20 a month plus pretty expensive calls, or £48.20 including calls.

Would that apply to people 'forced' by BT to have VoIP by BT disabling their current copper/analogue phone service?

Ironically, I currently get a significant discount on my phone line rental because I do not have an internet connection through their network!

 

[JohnW2]

If you have phone and broadband from BT, then in the "digital upgrade" you lose your analogue phone service. ... If you have phone only you do not.

How complicated/'odd'! I can certainly confirm that (presuming what I experienced last week was a "digital upgrade") the latter of those statements is true.

However, if that's the case, and although it did not say so, the letter I received from them (which I posted here recently) presumably must have been specific to 'phone only' customers?

 

[AndyPRK]

morq

It’s interesting that the early fibre adopters had battery backup installed in their homes to ensure phone still worked. (Maybe an option). They seam to have stopped that now. You can see videos on YouTube with them.

 

[JohnW2]

It’s interesting that the early fibre adopters had battery backup installed in their homes to ensure phone still worked. (Maybe an option).

Sounds pretty sensible and, of course, has always been theoretically desirable in relation to Internet access as well as phone - since, regardless of whether one is connected by copper or 'fibre' one's laptop/whatever cannot get connected during a 'power cut' without some back-up power source in the home (unless one relies upon a GSM connection from phone/whatever).

That's the reason why my router is one of the very few things I have running off a UPS.

 

[AndyPRK]

I don’t think the ups included the router

The cost and maintenance of batteries would make it silly of them to provided it to everyone.

The ONT had a phone socket I guess. Now deleted

 

[SUNRAY]

I don’t think the ups included the router

The cost and maintenance of batteries would make it silly of them to provided it to everyone.

The ONT had a phone socket I guess. Now deleted

Not much point really when the cabinet in the street is not battery backed

 

[SUNRAY]

Sounds pretty sensible and, of course, has always been theoretically desirable in relation to Internet access as well as phone - since, regardless of whether one is connected by copper or 'fibre' one's laptop/whatever cannot get connected during a 'power cut' without some back-up power source in the home (unless one relies upon a GSM connection from phone/whatever).

And vanishingly small phone base stations now have battery back-up

That's the reason why my router is one of the very few things I have running off a UPS.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You seem to be being silly, perhaps for the sake of it, since I'm sure that you know what I meant ...

Not at all - you just didn't seem to appreciate, or accept, that you cannot have a phone these days, without also accepting internet.

 

[Vicario]

A bit off topic, but Virgin Media have customers who take their previous TV offering (TIVO) but not broadband. Recently, they wanted to upgrade these customers with the new system (TV360) ( which uses an internet connection) so they have installed a router and ethernet connection with a watered down broadband speed. For various reasons due to their contracts with streaming services etc. this was cost-effective, even though they don't charge for the broadband line. Could something like that work with VOIP for landlines? I see from some posts above that this has been started now by BT but not sure about other companies. My friend down the road (just moved to TV360) tried to get a wifi signal just out of interest and there was none visible, so I think that these routers are somehow configured for ethernet only to enable streaming TV. He actually has a VM router (+ethernet) for the TV and Community Fibre for his broadband and VOIP.

 

[plugwash]

VoIP can only work when there is an "IP" and hence requires an Internet connection

It requires a data connection to the VOIP provider, not nessacerally an internet connection.