BT phone line/service 'upgrade'

[Harry Bloomfield]

However, I do recognise that there will be some people who want nothing other than a phone, and I just hope they will be charged less than those who want access to 'the internet' in a much wider sense (i.e. not 'subsidising' those other people). From what some people have recently posted, it seems that such probably is the case.

Why, except as a 'social concession'? The service is the very same, a fibre carrying data, from your local exchange, to your home. It needs the same amount of maintenance as where it is used for both internet and VoIP, as just for the VoIP. Besides, relative costs for having the VoIP, compared to what it once cost me for a phone at home, are dropping year, on year.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes, absense of power in cabinets is not a problem for openreach FTTP. Power is only required at the telephone exchange and customer premesis.

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure. Is there a distance limit, over which this works, without power?

 

[plugwash]

This discussion I started has been very interesting, but I'm still far from clear as to the answer to my question - i.e. the question of what was actually done during the 'upgrade to my service' which happened last week!

I think I found the answer, thanks to a search term provided by bernard.

Openreach Launches Alternative UK Analogue Phone Line Product

Openreach has today notified UK telecoms providers that their SOTAP Analogue product will, following a "successful pilot" (here), get its full commercial launch

www.ispreview.co.uk

According to today’s new briefing, SOTAP Analogue will now officially become commercially available from 28th October 2025 and attracts an annual rental of £127.80 +vat (£10.65 per month). But the price you pay at retail will be higher than this due to the need to add 20% VAT, profit margins and account for other service features/costs etc. Migrations to this line will also attract a connection fee of £30.91 +vat (see wholesale costs).

However, this remains a temporary solution, which allows enough time for the most challenging / vulnerable and CNI users to find a modern digital solution. But it will eventually be retired too through the future closure of Openreach’s old exchanges, which is expected to occur at full speed from 2030 onwards.

I would assume this is what you were migrated to. A VOIP product with the analog <-> VOIP trainsition hosted at the telephone exchange.

The article contradicts bernards post and said that said service is exchange-based rather than cabinet-based, which if-true avoids the problems discussed in this thread of cabinet backup power, but also means the product itself has a limited life as BT would like to close most telephone exchanges in the medium term.

 

[morqthana]

As I have said before, FTTP does not use cabinets.

FTTC goes from a telephone exchange to an "aggregation node" to a "FTTC cabinet" to a "PCP cabinet" to a "DP" to a customer. The aggregation node PCP cabinet and DP are passive, but the FTTC cabinet is active.

FTTP goes from the telephone exchange to an "aggregation node" to a "splitter node" to a "fiber DP" to a customer.

So all the existing FTTC cables become redundant, all the investment in them written off?

 

[plugwash]

Thanks for that, I wasn't sure. Is there a distance limit, over which this works, without power?

Openreach FTTP is based on GPON. I can't find any specific numbers for openreach's network but a general search suggests that GPON has a specified range limit of 20km but that many communication providers limit it to 16km for reliability.

That compares to a max of about 6km for ADSL (and the service is getting pretty crappy by that point)

GPON also means that each fiber at the telephone exchange serves multiple customers. GPON supports split ratios up to 1:64 but openreach normally uses a 1:32 split with two ports reserved (so effectively a 1:30 split).

So it allows a dramatic reduction in the number of telephone exchanges but won't allow them to be eliminated entirely.

While BT openreach rolled out FTTC before FTTP my understanding is the "new" network was designed to support both. Everywhere that can get FTTC should be able to get FTTP from the same aggregation node.

Point to point fiber links can go much further, 120km rated fiber transcievers are readilly available (though YMMV)

edit: corrected typo on first line.

 

[morqthana]

I think I found the answer, thanks to a search term provided by bernard.

Openreach Launches Alternative UK Analogue Phone Line Product

Openreach has today notified UK telecoms providers that their SOTAP Analogue product will, following a "successful pilot" (here), get its full commercial launch

www.ispreview.co.uk

So are JohnW2 and pcaouolte "vulnerable" or CNI users?

 

[morqthana]

It’s interesting that the early fibre adopters had battery backup installed in their homes to ensure phone still worked. (Maybe an option). They seam to have stopped that now. You can see videos on YouTube with them.

Landline dependent customers helped by Vodafone innovation

While traditional battery backups are often big, heavy, loud and complex to set up, this new Broadband Battery Backup is compact and simple to install.

www.vodafone.co.uk

 

[JohnW2]

Why, except as a 'social concession'? The service is the very same, a fibre carrying data, from your local exchange, to your home. It needs the same amount of maintenance as where it is used for both internet and VoIP, as just for the VoIP.

As I've said, it doesn't really matter a jot to me personally.

As for those who want (and have always had) a 'phone only' service, all that matters to them is that, after 'changes' which are in no way their fault, they end up paying the same, or less, for their telephone service as they had previously been paying. The fact tat the infrastructure costs of VoIP and 'full internet' are much the same is really the providers' problem, not the customers'.

 

[JohnW2]

So are JohnW2 and pcaouolte "vulnerable" or CNI users?

If we are, then seemingly so are all other customers in my village - at least, all those who do not use BT lines/cables for internet access.

 

[morqthana]

This discussion I started has been very interesting, but I'm still far from clear as to the answer to my question - i.e. the question of what was actually done during the 'upgrade to my service' which happened last week!

The seemingly likeliest explanation is that what happened was another of the routine FTTC upgrades which used to result in people (like me) being migrated to Digital Voice, no hardware provided, no BBU for my VDSL modem, but now results in people being migrated to this new service where they still receive an analogue phone signal.

 

[plugwash]

So all the existing FTTC cables become redundant, all the investment in them written off?

The cables from the exchanges to the aggregation nodes are used by both FTTC and FTTP.

The cables from the PCP cabinet to the customer are, for the most part, existing cables from the pre-fiber era.

That leaves the cables from the aggregation nodes to the FTTC cabinets, the fiber cabinets themselves and the tie cables from the fiber cabinets to the PCP cabinets as potential "short-lived infrastructure". I'll bet most FTTC cabinets are at least 20 years old by the time they are retired though.

One does wonder if BT made the right choice by rolling out FTTC first, only to follow up with FTTP a decade or two later. On the one hand it does seem wasteful, on the other hand there have been a number of advancements since 2007 which have made deploying FTTP easier (notably developing fiber that is less bend-sensitive and developing ruggidised connector block terminals that reduce the need to splice fibers in difficult locations).

So are JohnW2 and pcaouolte "vulnerable" or CNI users?

I could well imagine BT retail (who are supposed to operate at least somewhat independently from BT openreach) deciding that any remaining customers of phone-only lines were "edge case users" of some sort.

I suspect the vast majority of BT retail customers have broadband.

 

[JohnW2]

I think I found the answer, thanks to a search term provided by bernard.

Thanks - but I'm still not sure that I really understand. In particular, despite .....

However, this remains a temporary solution, which allows enough time for the most challenging / vulnerable and CNI users to find a modern digital solution.

.... BT have not yet even suggested, let alone told or 'encouraged' me, to "find a modern digital solution" and have not yet (to the best of my knowledge) converted any houses in my village to FTTP.

Since a basic analogue phone still works here, power must presumably still be getting supplied to the cabinet, either from a local source or through persisting copper cables back to the exchange?

 

[morqthana]

Is DECT in the hub something you believe to be the case?

Bearing in mind

My experience is limited to BT broadband and the BT Home Hub modem.

Although I got the modem model wrong - I have a Smart Hub 2, not a Home Hub x, and it has inbuilt DECT.

I thought the power plug adapters are simply a wifi adapter as you go on to say:

You can get VoIP adapters with a phone socket that connect over WiFi or Ethernet to your modem.

By that I meant ATAs https://united-telecoms.co.uk/blog/voip-adapter-guide/

The power plug adapters I was talking about are these: https://www.bt.com/help/user-guides/phones/digital-voice/digital-voice-adapter/

They convert an analogue phone to a DECT handset, and the Smart Hub 2 has a built in DECT base station.

 

[plugwash]

.... BT have not yet even suggested, let alone told or 'encouraged' me, to "find a modern digital solution"

Doesn't entirely surpise me. I suspect BT retail assumes that normal residential customers buy their phone and broadband as a bundle.

For phone/broadband customers the main way to "encourage" customers to switch seems to have been offering them new deals. and burying in the fine print of those offers that the phone service is VOIP based.

There will of course be edge-cases where a high sophistication residential customer has a phone-only line. Maybe they have had multiple phone lines for years and only have broadband on one of them. Maybe they share a broadband service with a neighbour but have their own phone line. Maybe they live in a place with an altnet that delivers great broadband but is not in the phone buisiness. Maybe openreach broadband sucks so badly where they live that mobile broadband is the less **** open.

But by and large across BT retails residential customer base, I suspect the majority of remaining phone-only customers are "low-sophistication", and perhaps even "vulnerable" old people. Telling them to "find a modern digitial soloution" before you are ready to offer them one is just going to anger them. Switching them to a VOIP-based product hosted at the exchange but with little dependency on other equipment there lets them kick the can down the road to the point where they decommision the telephone exchange site as a whole.

The quotes in the ISPreview article are from BT openreach, who for the most part don't deal directly with the general public. They are aimed at the "industry", who they expect to find "soloutions".

It's no use telling granny that her emergency call button won't work in a few years time, it is important to tell that to the companies selling granny an emergency call service.

Since a basic analogue phone still works here, power must presumably still be getting supplied to the cabinet, either from a local source or through persisting copper cables back to the exchange?

Yes, wherever it is located the equipment that converts IP to POTs will require power.

At least according to the ISPreview article the new equipment is at the exchange not the cabinet. If-so that lets them decommision the old PSTN equipment at the exchange, but not to decommision the exchange site as a whole or the copper wiring from the exchange to the cabinet, and will still require them to maintain some form of backhaul from the exchange.

 

[morqthana]

One does wonder if BT made the right choice by rolling out FTTC first, only to follow up with FTTP a decade or two later. On the one hand it does seem wasteful, on the other hand there have been a number of advancements since 2007 which have made deploying FTTP easier (notably developing fiber that is less bend-sensitive and developing ruggidised connector block terminals that reduce the need to splice fibers in difficult locations).

And surely on a 3rd other hand it involved an awful lot less work than rolling out FTTP. It meant that they could leave a lot of the FTTP work to be done as and when individual customers opted to take a full-fibre broadband service, either from BT or a 3rd-party provider, and yet it provided a part-fibre infrastructure which served the market for high-speed internet for people who didn't need, or didn't want, "gigabit" bandwidth. By the time they get to the mandatory FTTP stage, I'm sure that a significant chunk will already have been done without the need to mobilise an army of installers working to a fixed schedule.

I could well imagine BT retail (who are supposed to operate at least somewhat independently from BT openreach) deciding that any remaining customers of phone-only lines were "edge case users" of some sort.

I suspect the vast majority of BT retail customers have broadband.

BT has a broadband market share of under 30% - maybe even nearer to 25%. They know how many of their phone customers have BT broadband, what they don't know is how many of the others have no broadband, or have non-BT broadband. Do they know at the individual customer level how many people have/had an analogue telephone service provided over copper by non-BT broadband companies?

I don't know how typical/atypical I am, but prior to becoming a BT broadband customer I'd had it from a number of other providers, but I'd always had a BT phone landline.