Builders or Monkeys???

[AndrewSchofield]

Hi, just wondered if i could get a 'builder's point of view' on this.

We're currently having the position of an external door and window into our kitchen 'swapped' to provide a final exit from the stair to satisfy building regs for a loft conversion. The builders started work on Wednesday morning. When my wife returned home in the evening she just happened to meet the builder at the end of our road where he said he was waiting for her to return (seemed a bit odd? waiting at the end of the road?). She said she'd see them in the morning and then went to the back of the house to see they'd left the house as shown in this pitcure-

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• AndrewSchofield
• 20 Jun 2008
• 1

. Bearing in mind we're still using the kitchen and bathroom in the house and the house still has 90% of our belongings inside we were astonished that they had left the house open like this. It was also raining at the time.

Thursday was much the same when we returned to find the house looking like this -

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• AndrewSchofield
• 20 Jun 2008
• 1

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• AndrewSchofield
• 20 Jun 2008
• 1

We spoke to them and they said there was nothing else they could do. We understand it is difficult to board up in this situation but the fact that they just left the house like this without even phoning us to tell us they were going, to check what time we were returning or to tell us that again they had been unable to secure the house. (they had not asked us to be back by a certain time and we undestood they worked until 5pm but our neighbours tell us they left soon after 4pm).

We feel that this is totally unacceptable but are a little cautious at approaching them for fear they'll say they don't want to finish the work and leave us with a big hole in the side of our house and therefore a big problem!!! I'm sure it wouldn't have been too tricky to even lean a piece of wood up against the props or fasten up a tarp so it wasn't so obvious the house was open - there was even a piece of 8' x 4' sheathing ply just off the picture that they could have used!!! They did however manage to take all their tools upstairs and cover them with some sheets - presumably in the hope they didn't get stolen!!!

I work as an architectural consultant and thought i'd be safe using someone on our approved builders list who does a lot of work for us but i'm not at all impressed with them.

Could anyone give me a builder's point of view in an attempt to defend them? Or is this indefensible???[/img]

 

[joe-90]

They are legally liable if they leave your house insecure. A bit of a temporary ply door shouldn't be too difficult for them.

 

[^woody^]

Firstly, get them removed from your approved list. If you need to pass your expereince to someone at your firm who manages the list then do so today. Then write to the company and expain why they are no longer approved.

Also if they are on any other local council or trades list, do the same.

Then demand that the property is left secure and that if they dont do it, then you will call out a 24hr company to do it for them and recharge the costs to them. An you don't want a token board either you want a proper frame and openable entrance/exit if need be

If you are an arch. consultant, then I am really surprised that you would take this sh1t from a builder and more so that you would be hesitant to tackle them about it. It's your house FFS!

 

[AndrewSchofield]

Just to clarify, i am relatively new to the job and have little experience with working with builders on site, since qualifying my employer has steered be more toward planning consultancy than to techinical/on site aspects of the job.

I fully intend to speak to my boss and detail my experiences with this builder and leave it at his discretion as to whether he remains on our list but if a client asks me then i will not be able to tell them i would recommend them.

My problem with tackling them about this is that we have a 2yr old son and my wife is 8 months pregnant so i cannot afford the time if they decide they're gonna cut their losses and walk off - we live in the countryside and finding builders at short notice is not easy. I'd rather let them finish the work and then confront them when it comes to paying them. They tell me that the central pillar which can be seen on the pictures is a bit precarious and they didn't want to drill into this when fixing boards in case it weakened it further. I just need to know whether what they are telling me is valid or not as my instinct from the limited experience i have is that the situation is disgusting but before i go jumping in with two feet i wanted to ensure i was in the right.

I propped up some old internal doors on the inside and fixed a plywood sheet roughly outside and whilst this isn't exactly secure it is far better than what they left and took me all of 10minutes.

 

[Shytalkz]

Exactly as Woody says. If they're on your company's approved contractor list, you would think that they would at least have the gumption to do a good job. And leaving it opren and unsecured is not a good job.

 

[^woody^]

If you wait till payment then it is too late.

With building work its best to deal with probelms when they occur and not let them wait and fester.

When it comes to payment the builder wants his money and its no good referring to things that went on weeks before. If there is an issue with payment then resolve these early on so that you both know what the final bill will be and nothing unexpected crops up

Deal with the issues and then you both know where you stand.

If you are newly qualified, then get some advice from the more experienced members at your firm.

Also the fact that you have limited experience in your job, is irrelevent.
You are a client and deal with them on this basis. You are paying for the work. Don't be fobbed off. Don't be dictated to. Don't be run around. You say what you want, the builder does it (within reason).

Don't be held to ransom. If they are not performing then sort it out or get them off site.

 

[AndrewSchofield]

Thanks Woody, will talk to some other guys and in particular one who has dealt with this builder in the past - see what he suggests we should do and then see what surprises await me when i arrive at home tonight!!!!

In some ways the builders have been good and have already completed 'phase 1' of our works where they got stuck in and got it done quicker than scheduled as we wanted a quick job and with what they've done so far i can't complain about the workmanship - i just couldn't believe they'd happily walked off site leaving it like this when they knew no-one was around. We have already spoken to them so they know we aren't happy but they said that all they could do last night was apologise and they'll make sure its boarded for the weekend if its not complete. They were all very nice and apologetic this morning when they arrived on site!!!

 

[IJWS15]

Slightly off topic but what are the props standing on?

 

[AndrewSchofield]

The two central props are standing on the concrete doorstep. the one on the right is on top of a small limestone plinth that runs along the front of the house. This one does look a bit dodgy on the photo but from memory i can't remember thinking it looked precarious on site? Think it may be an opitcal illusion!!

 

[masona]

We spoke to them and they said there was nothing else they could do. We understand it is difficult to board up in this situation

I wouldn't have any problem boarding it up, it's not that difficult to do

 

[noseall]

irresponsible monkeys.

we often have to complete the knock-through into a new extension, prior to the windows going in.

this always means buying some 18mm hoarding ply and securing the building until the windows are fitted.

we either screw them to the wall with washers over the screw heads or use acros and planks along with the ply boards.

thoughtless morons.

 

[gregers]

id bet there bleat like lambs if you had phoned them up to tell them there tools had been nicked,totally out of order leaving your house unsecure like that,and never ever think that because you live in the country that there wont be other builders around,the current ones you have got would not like you going round telling all and sundrie how bad there attitude is concerning your belongings,remember it takes years to get a good reputation and a matter of weeks to loose it.