Building a wooden dining bench with steel legs.

[Northbeach]

Hi all.

I want to build a couple of wooden dining benches for our table. Space wise, benches will look a lot neater and fit a few more bums on seats (kids at least!).

I was thinking of either using old scaffold boards (cleaned and sanded), or (more likely) bringing in some oak planks (cut to size).
My other half's family live in the middle of rural Norfolk and have a 'wood farm' a 5-10 min walk away from their house. I've visited this and the shear amount of wood (planks, trunks, trees) is breathtaking. The in laws know the family who run this so it's not an issue them selling the cutting the wood for us and sending them up next time they visit.

Something like this:

Dimensions wise I was thinking of 1180mm length (just enough for it to slot under the table), 14" wide (12" or 13" would possibly suffice) and around 40mm thick.

After that (and this is stepping outside carpentry for a moment) I was wondering what the process for the steel legs would be - square as in the photo above. Can this be purchased in standard sizes, or would it be a case of visiting a metal works and getting them shape the steel for me?? Is there a rough guide to cost?
The only thing I've managed to find is from a firm selling on ebay:

These are powder coated (or you can purchase them pre treated) and cost £120 for the two.
I've absolutely no idea what to compare the prices to (they look a little more high end than I intended). I can't seem to locate a local firm that would do this type of steel (is it cold folded?)

After I have the steel legs/supports and wood would I drill holes in the steel and tap screw bolt 'plugs' (I bet someone mentioned this to be on here a while ago, but I've forgotten the term - essentially a metal rawl plug that you tap into wood then screw a bolt into).

Is this doable and cost effective (presuming I can get a decent price for the wood, it's the steel I'm worried about). This type of bench (and table) retail for a considerable amount of money.

Many thanks!

 

[foxhole]

Companies like this may be able to point you in the right direction.
http://www.congleton-engineering.co...m-welding-2/?gclid=CPa564ndpsgCFUGx2wodoFEEbg

 

[Burnerman]

Its mild steel erw (electric resistance welded) tubing, with welded corners and the welds ground down flat so they aren't visible.
You are probably thinking about Rivnuts......inserted into a pre drilled hole, they lock in place giving a threaded hole.
Dead easy stuff for a metal fabricator!
John

 

[Northbeach]

Companies like this may be able to point you in the right direction.
http://www.congleton-engineering.co...m-welding-2/?gclid=CPa564ndpsgCFUGx2wodoFEEbg

Thanks foxhole - I'll look into them.
I haven't got a price for the wood yet (presume I'm best with Oak), but if it gets too daft I'll put it on the back burner for a while.

Cheers!

 

[Northbeach]

Its mild steel erw (electric resistance welded) tubing, with welded corners and the welds ground down flat so they aren't visible.
You are probably thinking about Rivnuts......inserted into a pre drilled hole, they lock in place giving a threaded hole.
Dead easy stuff for a metal fabricator!
John

Ahhh - rivnuts. Them's the ones! Would they be the best option - bolts through the legs (say 4 per leg) then appropriately sized nuts and bolts (and matching rivets)? M10 a good starter?
I know you can buy those ready made, tube legs...but to me they look like the legs on Argos TV stands, hence chasing these square, welded legs. The ones' I placed a pic of above have been coated according to the bumf:

Our clear coated and black legs are sealed using a powder coated finish. This is the most professional and durable finish offered in the industry. Paint is sprayed onto the legs and then they are baked in an oven to allow the leg to cure under heat. The results are stunningly consistent.

They do look nice, and I could probably go 'less sleek' if there were cheaper options around. Wondering if local steel firms (like the one linked above) would also provide a coating finish?

EDIT - JUST LOOKED AT THE LINK AND THE PLACE IN CONGLETON PROVIDE FINISHES ETC. I'LL MAIL THEM ON MONDAY.

BTW - 40mm seem about right for bench thickness? I'm guessing it should hold the weight of more than a few family members

Many thanks folks...I might just tackle this (depending on the price of the wood).

Cheers.

 

[Burnerman]

I'm a little unsure where you would use the Rivnuts......I'd be inclined to coach bolt through the timber seat and through to the steel horizontal as there could be considerable stress sideways with kids shuffling around and so on.
40mm is fine for the seat thickness.
I use a firm called Metalsupermarkets for most of my requirements - pricey for sure but they have what you need and they cut to length.
If you can get the legs fabricated then they can be painted, stove enamelled, plastic coated or even chromed - whatever you want. A typical steel tube section could be 50 x 25mm.
John

 

[big-all]

i have made a 850mm wide by 1500mm table and 2 benches made from 6x2" sawn treated that comes out very smooth on at least 1 surface and the timber was around £120 for that lol
as an asside if its oak you need stainless for the frame and fixings to stop the tannin in the oak rusting the metal and causing black marks on the oak

 

[Northbeach]

I'm a little unsure where you would use the Rivnuts......I'd be inclined to coach bolt through the timber seat and through to the steel horizontal as there could be considerable stress sideways with kids shuffling around and so on.
40mm is fine for the seat thickness.

Hi Burnerman. The pic of the bench on the top of the page is pretty much exactly the bench I'd like to build. I've had a look at a few and hadn't seen any with bolts all the way through to the seat (hidden), hence thinking rivets (large - M10 or more) with bolts through the steel then into the rivnuts embedded in the underside of the timber. I was also thinking the two square legs would be sufficient (rather than having horizontal supports going across left to right):

However, if bolts going through the seat (countersunk - and then filled for aesthetic reasons?) would result in a stronger bench, then I'm all for it.

I use a firm called Metalsupermarkets for most of my requirements - pricey for sure but they have what you need and they cut to length.
If you can get the legs fabricated then they can be painted, stove enamelled, plastic coated or even chromed - whatever you want. A typical steel tube section could be 50 x 25mm.
John

I'll check that firm out also.
With regards to fabrication, I'm not sure (following on from Big All's point) if any other than stainless steel would now be worth considering?

Many thanks.

 

[Northbeach]

i have made a 850mm wide by 1500mm table and 2 benches made from 6x2" sawn treated that comes out very smooth on at least 1 surface and the timber was around £120 for that lol
as an asside if its oak you need stainless for the frame and fixings to stop the tannin in the oak rusting the metal and causing black marks on the oak

What type of wood did you Big All (and any pics?! ) £120 for oak (if is oak) that size isn't bad.
Interesting point re the Oak and rusting. Even those powder coated, heated steels no good for oak? Is there anything that could be added in between the steel and oak. I'm only asking as I'm presuming stainless steel would be a heck of a lot more expensive (I could, as usual, be wrong!).
The reason I'd like oak is that the table is oak (actually a veneer - cheapish table, but looks ok) as will the floor (when it's laid!).
I guess I could look at beech/birch, but I'm not sure pine would work (looks wise) here...but then again, perhaps I simply don't know how to properly finish pine (always ends up an odd, sickly, yellow colour!). I guess reclaimed pine could work?
I'll ring the wood firm in the week and get an idea of prices.

In saying all that, prices for these pre made benches (as above) are astronomical (£400 for a scaffold bench!) so I'll have to weigh up cost of build.

Many thanks.

 

[big-all]

no its not oak that would be about 6 times the price this sort off stuff although i pay £3 11 including vat from my timber yard ryall and edwards outwood surrey
its not an interactive web site hense the second link
http://www.ryall-edwards.co.uk/
https://www.jastimber.co.uk/6x2-tanalised-treated-timber-50x150mm

 

[Burnerman]

I'd still go for bolt through, filling the counterbored bolt head hole with a resin or similar to finish it off.
Rivnuts are secured into the steel, not the timber......you could actually screw up into the seat timber but if the furniture gets a hard life then the screws could slacken.
Stainless is a good choice, but requires more specialist welding than standard mild steel, which would be more expensive.
John

 

[Northbeach]

no its not oak that would be about 6 times the price this sort off stuff although i pay £3 11 including vat from my timber yard ryall and edwards outwood surrey
its not an interactive web site hense the second link
http://www.ryall-edwards.co.uk/
https://www.jastimber.co.uk/6x2-tanalised-treated-timber-50x150mm

Ahh - tanalised. If you get round to posting some pics Big-All, I'd love to see em!
Presuming you joined the two 6x2's together to make the table and benches? I only need two benches, hence could probably just about manage to use Oak. This all depends on cost however as I'm utterly in the dark for the sizes I want. Hopefully being a wood cutting 'farm' rather than a timber yard (cutting out a middle man) I'll get them a bit cheaper.
I'm concerned over the rust issue with oak (only because it might make the steel more expensive as John has confirmed). Are there any other hardwoods (in one pieces rather than having to join up two sections)...beech, birch, redwood?

Many thanks.

 

[Northbeach]

I'd still go for bolt through, filling the counterbored bolt head hole with a resin or similar to finish it off.
Rivnuts are secured into the steel, not the timber......you could actually screw up into the seat timber but if the furniture gets a hard life then the screws could slacken.
Stainless is a good choice, but requires more specialist welding than standard mild steel, which would be more expensive.
John

Bolt through (with resin fill) is fine with me then
I saw rivnuts as being hammered into a pre drilled hole in wood, then a bolt entering through the steel then into the rivnuts (embedded in the seat). I'll go with bolt through.

As I mentioned above, the worry now is using oak with the wrong kind of steel, but stainless steel pushing the price up somewhat. I want these benches to look nice, but have to keep to a budget. I guess this would mean weighing up the cost of stainless steel against using a different type of wood. Possible to use

 

[big-all]

Ahh - tanalised. If you get round to posting some pics Big-All, I'd love to see em!
Presuming you joined the two 6x2's together to make the table and benches? I only need two benches, hence could probably just about manage to use Oak. This all depends on cost however as I'm utterly in the dark for the sizes I want. Hopefully being a wood cutting 'farm' rather than a timber yard (cutting out a middle man) I'll get them a bit cheaper.
I'm concerned over the rust issue with oak (only because it might make the steel more expensive as John has confirmed). Are there any other hardwoods (in one pieces rather than having to join up two sections)...beech, birch, redwood?



Many thanks.

benches are seperate to the table the timbers are spaced appart by at least 6mm to allow water and crud to fall through and allow expansion and contraction
at each leg there is a baton going from one side to the other from 3x1"[ripped in half] each side off the legs
the legs are 2 bits off 6x1 side by side a seating bench width appart

the bottom mirrors the top with sacraficial pads added to the bottom
the table is 5 planks wide with 2x1 in the gaps that you can slide off center alternatively by 12" to extend the table from 5ft to 7ft and with a sheet off 8x4ft will be fully supported to within 6" off the edge for a larger table but in my case the main use is a work bench

the seating benches are identical except 2 planks 6mm appart and one bit off 6x1 for the legs

the only way i could show you pictures is to take them on watsapp and send them to you or send them to an emaill address

i could get them to you then you could post them on the thread iff that would be handy

 

[Northbeach]

^^ Cheers Big-all, I'll drop my email add via PM.
Be interesting to see them. Aside from these benches, I'd like to build an outdoor bench in the future so I might take a similar approach to the way you've described above.

Just a quick one - although I still prefer to use oak for these benches (so it matched the floor and the current table) would any other hardwoods effect non stainless steel metals? Beech/Birch etc?
Also, does the type of wood dicate the amount of leg support the bench needs? From looking at these benches, I can't seem to find that many with horizontal supports (steels running left to right to both legs). The bench (likely in Oak) will be a maximum of 118cm - does this span (with that wood at 40mm thick) require horizontals?

Many thanks...apologies for all the questions...I don't want to pay a bob or two for the wood only for it to snap and have the mother in law land on her derriere!