Building external brick off steel beam

[angelboy]

I'm having trouble trying to work this out and wondered if anyone has any ideas or experience.

Property is cavity wall construction with brick and block. It's a new build - hasn't started yet, just waiting for the building regs approvals.

Basically, the 1st floor has a different footprint than the ground floor so some support is required to pick the brick and blocks up at 1st floor level.

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• angelboy
• 16 Jul 2013
• 1

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• angelboy
• 16 Jul 2013
• 1

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• angelboy
• 16 Jul 2013
• 1

As you can see from the first image, the plan was for a steel(s) to run from the block wall far left to a supporting wall on the right which takes the upper floor at the centre of the elevation, with a pick-up steel bolted on the longer spanning steels to take the front corner (marked on the plans).

In theory, this should work and the inner steel taking the blocks seems straightforward. Where I'm stuck is the outer leaf of bricks. What I'd imagine is some form of catnic style lintel which is bridged from the inner leaf of block and takes the out brick.

Like this:

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• angelboy
• 16 Jul 2013
• 1

The porch roof eaves is slightly lower than the ceiling level/first floor level so the external brick work would be visible.

Any ideas or am I on the right track?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Any ideas or am I on the right track?

Yes either a beam with a leg welded on and probably some webs or a pair of smaller steels, one under each skin.

A decent Building Regs application submission would have included a detail of this and a spec for the beam as well as the calcs that BC will ask for as a condition.

 

[angelboy]

Thanks for the reply.

 

[^woody^]

Why can't you just use two steel beams?

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Why can't you just use two steel beams?

Probably because it's facing brickwork?

 

[tony1851]

Why does the door between the porch and hall partially cut across the door into the room on the left?
Couldn't the inner door be moved along a bit?

 

[^woody^]

Why can't you just use two steel beams?

Probably because it's facing brickwork?

The beam would need to be below the level of the porch roof, so will be hidden

Why has the plan monkey not detailed this?

It seems a bit of a silly design with the lopsided wall layouts, and not using existing walls to support the upper storey

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The beam would need to be below the level of the porch roof, so will be hidden

Oh I think I see what's going on now...yeah, looks like it could be two beams...

Why has the plan monkey not detailed this?

I agree, but depends on what was quoted for. I remember a client from a couple of years ago who wanted the earth but wanted to pay peanuts. The quote was for "design of structural elements". The guy was a bit miffed that he didn't get a full set of Building regs drawings
Wasn't me who priced the job though...

 

[^woody^]

I agree, but depends on what was quoted for.

I agree with that, but someone can't (or should not) draw plans for a house and not even bother to detail how this important beam looks or is built in. They have to quote for doing a proper job, not chancing it

It's all too common to see beams drawn as two centre-lines on plan, only to find that they don't actually fit in when it comes to building

 

[tony1851]

If you think the OPs plan questionable, take a look at this for an architect's cop-out.
The red line on the bottom plan represents an 8m long beam supporting the back wall of the house. At the right-hand end it abruptly stops over a patio door. No thought whatsoever about structure - and the arch. was paid good money for this rubbish.
The problem is, clients don't realize things like this until the build starts, and when they question the arch., they just get fobbed off.

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• tony1851
• 16 Jul 2013
• 1

 

[RonnyRaygun]

At the right-hand end it abruptly stops over a patio door.

Simple Tony, put in a 152x89

 

[tony1851]

152x89

Te he.

Seriously, I dd my own version of a cop-out and pursuaded the client to move the patio doors along, and supported the beam off a 440x440 7N block pier integral with the wall.
(No point in looking for trouble!)