Building regs question

[nelliedee]

Hi
We are about to build a toilet/shower room in the back of our garage and have submitted a building application to the council. Today they have asked for
" copies of floor plans, elevations and sections to show the extent of proposed work"

Do I need to draw copies of existing and proposed floor plans ect?

I can draw the plans and include details of concrete lintel for new doorway, amount of insulation for floor, where the pipe work will run and where it will empty into, details of blockwork and extractor.

Have I missed anything?

 

[kevindgas]

yes an existing and a proposed drawing is usually required include the drains as they are and where you propose to join into them.

for general info on building regs try Ray Tricker's book Building regs in brief.

our local planning dept. also require a local street plan of adjacent properties.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

This is the kind of thing you should be submitting, some LAs will be more accomodating than others, likewise you get an easier ride if you're a regular customer which by the sounds of it, you're not.

http://idocs.westminster.gov.uk:808...tType=application/pdf&id=1604251&wmLocation=0

and yes, I know it says for listed building consent in the title block before anyone spots it, tis roughly whats needed though.

 

[nelliedee]

Thanks for your help.

 

[^woody^]

If you had submitted a Building Notice, then you would not have to provided any plans for this type of work

 

[mikric]

Yes as Woody says ,ask them to change it to a building notice application.

 

[nelliedee]

It was a building notice I submitted. The form had 3 boxes, full plans, building notice and regulisation and so i ticked the building notice one.o they wanted an estimate of price for the fees payable and i estimated 3000 and so my fee was 150. I got a letter saying they had received my application and that my fee was wrong and they needed another 95 and drawings. I have looked at the fees and they have put my shower/toilet in the 5000-7000 bracket and i am fuming. They state that you have to provide a figure that a tradesman in business would charge and I am using tradesmen and it comes to 3000 .

 

[^woody^]

Ring them up and give someone an ear bashing.

£7k to make a WC within an existing garage is way too much. Garage conversions are only about £5k.

Your £3k price is correct.

Then ask them why you need plans to show a toilet pan, shower tray and a basin. Who will be inspecting ... Mr Magoo? Or more to the point who is checking the applications .... Mr Magoo again?

They must have misread the application form, surely?

 

[nelliedee]

I am going in to see them on Tuesday and I have done some drawings for them but will be asking why they need them. I am starting the work on sat whether or not they are happy. We are midway thru a 2 storey extension that has not been finished thru lack of funds and we were due to start work again in June but my elderly mum, who lives with us, has become ill and desperately needs this downstairs wc ect which is why I am so set on starting the work this week. I will def argue the extra fees.
Thanks for your advice

 

[^woody^]

If there is an existing application, and work ongoing, then it's best to just tack the additional work/application on to this. Just agree the schedule 3 fees, and pay the additional amount, and the council can include inspections along with the other work. No need for plans.

 

[nelliedee]

I did origionally ask the planning dept this when I first rang to enquire and was told that I still needed to submit a building notice. The reason was to do with the new pipework and where it would run to. I am really not against doing things properly but really am starting to feel that in the current economic climate this local authority is trying to claw in money. Maybe I am just getting fed up of all the different rules. My builder thought that it may come under permitted planning and after hearing that I felt like screaming. Why are there so many rules? And why arnt they straight forward. Friends of ours build bathrooms, conservatories and what not and do not inform the council. They sold a house 2 yrs ago with a huge conservertory that was built without informing the council and the sale went thru no problem. If I dropped a leaf in the street i'de probably get fined

 

[stuart45]

A conservatory doesn't usually require Regs because it's really a greenhouse stuck on the back of the house separated by an exterior door. When drainage is involved it's different, because health issues are involved and also it's more difficult for a buyer to know what has been done, so it's needs to be checked when constructed.

 

[^woody^]

You (or your builder) are confusing planning and building regulations

Permitted development relates to planning permission, and planning permission does not apply to this type of work.

You are right that many people will do this type of work without formal permission, and the question is .... if it is done correctly then what is the problem?

Which then leads on to ..... lets say you withdrew the application, then done the work, making sure it is done correctly and with photos at various stages (especially where work is concealed ie drains). So no need for plans, and no hassle with the bureaucracy.

Now, if need be at some future date, then you could either make an application for Building Regulation Regularisation (ie retrospective permission) - you have the pictures if required, and no plans required, and so it gets approved.

Or at sale time, if this is picked up, then you pay the £100 or so for an indemnity insurance policy for the new buyers.

It's much less stress, and less expensive.

 

[Shytalkz]

Now Woody, you're being far too sensible and pragmatic.

Remember, there's more than one bcsurveyor....

Unfortunately.

 

[Richard C]

You are right that many people will do this type of work without formal permission, and the question is .... if it is done correctly then what is the problem?

None except that the onus will be totally on him to prove it has!

Which then leads on to ..... lets say you withdrew the application, then done the work, making sure it is done correctly and with photos at various stages (especially where work is concealed ie drains). So no need for plans, and no hassle with the bureaucracy.
Now, if need be at some future date, then you could either make an application for Building Regulation Regularisation (ie retrospective permission) - you have the pictures if required, and no plans required, and so it gets approved.

Sorry Woody, I think your being for too simplistic; if it was as easy as that everybody would be doing it, including me! LABC can get pretty ****ed if you try to circumnavigate them & as far as I’m aware they are under no obligation to accept photos as any sort of proof in lieu of inspection.

Or at sale time, if this is picked up, then you pay the £100 or so for an indemnity insurance policy for the new buyers. It's much less stress, and less expensive.

From what I’ve read about the new 6th April HIP regulations, I believe that may no longer be an option.

Sure the OP is having problems & I agree with most of what’s been said but I wouldn’t advise he go down that route. I suspect the reason his LABC may be getting sniffy is because he already has one ‘open’ submission which may have been a little inactive recently. I personally had my permitted development rights withdrawn because (quote) “I had submitted an extensive planning application & Building Notice submission” &, presumably, they wanted to keep an eye on what was going on. They didn’t give me any prior warning & I only found out because I wanted to change our conservatory roof height; which was outside BR’s anyway. But it does show that Planning & LABC appear (sometimes) to work together.

I suspect they may be suspicious that, rather than just installing a loo in the garage, it’s being converted to full habitable status; or, at least, will be intended to be used as such. To the OP, I would say just make sure you have all the information available for the meeting on Tuesday; exactly what you intend, drain runs, spec. etc & have quotes/costing information available & £3k is more than adequate. If you make them aware you know what your doing, they will be more likely to trust you. Don’t get stroppy, it’s far less hassle to work with them than agin them; a bit like “DIYnot” mods, they have a delete button &, unfortunately, we don’t have an accept button!