by jove---what a rip off..............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gungadin]

hi all!
before i tell you of my woes, let me say what the problem with my CH system was.
a few months ago, the CH pump (Grundfos) stopped working after many years of service.
fortunately, we were covered by a British Gas service contract, so they sent an engineer round, who, instead of changing the whole pump, just replaced the motor body, then left saying the system would be fine once its warmed up. and when i asked him why he didnt put a grundfos pump in, he said grundfos dont make pumps anymore!! more of this later!!!

we soon found that the radiators upstairs only got lukewarm and the downstairs ones absolutely cold. i tried venting them, balancing, draining and refilling, but to no avail.
obviously there was probably a sludging problem.

fast forward a few weeks, and i asked British Gas to send another engineer down as my family were freezing during the recent cold spells, and we were having to use electric fan heaters around the house.

they again sent another engineer, who wisely replaced the whole pump (again, not grundfos!).
he started the system up and again, the upstairs rads were lukewarm and downstairs cold.
he then started going on and on about how old my boiler was, how it could explode at any time and break through the floor and into the downstairs dining room!
then he said that the wrong size of piping had been used, to which i said that we never had any problems becuase of it before.

he said the system was blocked up with gunge and i asked if the gunge could be removed, to which he said "oh no, mate....i wouldnt recommend that to anyone. last time i was involved in a flushing operation, the customers boiler blew up -- very dangerous....".

it was then that the engineer pulled his trump card -- he pulled a magnet out of his pocket and stuck it on a particular part of the piping, saying that "magnets dont stick to copper, do they?", as he found another part of piping which was copper, and showed me that the magnet did not of course stick there.

the reason for the magnet sticking on, he said, was that the magnet was attracted to the sludge stuck in the inside of the pipe. "so what you really need, mate, is a complete new central heating system--thats the only way to get it clean."

unbeknown to me at that time, i didnt realise that most of the piping in my system was done in steel piping, not copper and therefore the magnet would stick on it anyway!!
basically, he said, "you need a new boiler and you'll get a free system flush with it as well".
how much would it cost, i asked. around £1000, maybe £1500??
"and the rest of it, mate" he said. "you're looking at approx £3500".
and with that, he left us in the cold!!

it was then while i was downstairs making him a cup of coffee that i heard him talking to one of his mates on his mobile phone, about some other customer whom he had been trying for a couple of weeks to agree to a replacement boiler-- "if the guy agrees, its more brownie points for us, innit, mate?", he said..........! thats when i clicked what agenda British Gas are working to...........

now you probably realise what my post is about -- its a rant about being ripped off by British Gas!

but read on.....this is the most hilarious part of my story...........
whereas the BG engineer had said that my system was doomed, and even replacing the bolier may not cure the problem--it may need a complete new CH system!!

i had heard many years ago about an additive you mix in with the water in your system, so what i did was to head down to my local B&Q store and bought myself 2 bottles: some Fernox Heavy Duty Restorer and a bottle of Fernox Inhibitor--total cost £40. while i was there, i checked the price os new boliers, and the highest was around £800--compare that to the quote given me by the BG engineer above!!!

All i did was to drain the system, add the restorer, filled up again and ran up the system for around an hour. hey presto- abracadabra-open sesame and whatever else--the rads all started to get hotter than they had ever been before in a long while!
i was still pessimistic, after hearing what the BG engineer had said, so i decided to wait a while and see if the downstairs rads warmed up as well, which they did within the hour--unbelievable!

anyway, i kept the retorer in the system for a week as directed, drained system twice, refilled with inhibitor and now, weeks later, the system is running piping hot.
all in all, i saved £3460, going by BG's approximation!!

so, to cut a long story short--it is my opinion that British Gas are a bunch of lying theives, out to squeeze as much money out of customers as possible. No wonder they have just announced a profit of £5 billion for the year.
I for one will never ever use them again and i have also cancelled their service contract!!

by the way, this is not an ad for Fernox and i am not at all linked to them! nor am i singling out British Gas, but as many of you in the trade will know, BG do have a habit of trying to force their sales on unsuspecting customers, especially old people. so my message to BG is this: "wake up BG--get your engineers to stop taking the p and ramp up your business ethics. its clear you are ripping off many many poor customers--shame on you"

 

[ChrisR]

If you have steel pipes, you're very lucky indeed not to have caused a flood. Many heating guys won't touch them.
You don't (even) say what your boiler is, but £3500 is not unusual for a BG quote. You also haven't given any indication of whether the boiler needs replacing...?

 

[gungadin]

my boiler is a potterton and around 8 to 10 yrs old.
just to let you know, i had an independent plumber take a look at it recently, and he said the boiler is fine--its got at least another 5 to 8 years running in it yet.

well, the thing about the steel piping is this--BG knew this when they decided to cover the whole system; as when i asked them about the age of the system, they did say that if they were unsure about the viability of any system, they would never take it onto their service contracts.

again, the same independent plumber advised me that as long as i have a decent inhibitor in the system, it will pose no serious problems at all.

by the way, you dont work for BG do you ?

If you have steel pipes, you're very lucky indeed not to have caused a flood. Many heating guys won't touch them.
You don't (even) say what your boiler is, but £3500 is not unusual for a BG quote. You also haven't given any indication of whether the boiler needs replacing...?

 

[gasright]

So

just because your unlucky enough to have been visited by 1 or 2 bad engineers does that make the whole company as bad???

more slagging off BG

 

[ChrisR]

by the way, you dont work for BG do you ?

No, I turned them down.
Maybe your independent plumber hasn't seen steel pipes turn to sprinkler systems when cleaners are put in, but many of us have.
You still haven't told us what your boiler is.
It would be "better" to replace it in that you'd use less gas..
BG are very good at telling everyone they need a new boiler - well documented here.

 

[giblets]

Gungadin, you have not completed the story of BG saying Grundfos do not make pumps any more. Grundfos do actually make pumps for BG but badge them accordingly.

At a guess your original heating system was installed in the early seventies when there was a world shortage of copper. One of the alternatives used was passive zinc coated mild steel tube that went under the name of Simplicity Elm amongst others. This tube is now nearly 40 years old and has a very nasty habit of rotting from the inside out. As ChrisR quite rightly states, by adding Fernox (or whatever other cleaner) you run the very great risk of hastening the rotting process. Regretfully, not too many of the "younger generation" of engineers have come across this steel tube so would be unfamiliar with it. I only hope you don't live to regret having given BG the elbow as and when the pipework starts to fail.

You existing boiler is not the original one that was installed with the system but, without knowing the model, it is hard to give an opinion on it's longevity.

 

[doitall]

On a good system, by good I mean installed properly, steel and stainless steel will last forever if treated with inhibitor, and the outside is dry.

Atmosphere corrodes steel pipe, not, water treated with inhibitor.

 

[nickso]

at the moment BG give far too much credit for sales and far too little for fixing things. human nature to chase the money/easy way out.

he sounds like he's had the average BG morons through the door. shame, makes it so much harder for me to be polite to people when they treat me the same way as these dicks.

editied after mod removed related post.

 

[Agile]

I politely have a lot of sympathy for Gunge!

However, I would repeat that many systems made of steel tube are just waiting to start leaking and you are very lucky the chemical did not cause a leak.

Since the steel tube was often plated with copper on the outside its quite easy for an installer to not realise the steel. I would be surprised if BG had originally noticed!

Tony.

 

[nickso]

I would be surprised if BG had originally noticed!

or cared, at the end of the day most corrosion is chargeable so it doesnt really matter what the pipes are made from.

 

[Soggy_weetabix]

Passivated zinc..... as my old mans calls it.... perforated zinc. I carry out many repairs of this stuff and Im a young man but was taught by a man who explained the dangers of it.

BG engineers are trained to sell boilers. Generally uneducated, with no common sense and on a bonus for the installs they sell. That is why my dad left after 35 years. He, like me is a gas engineer...not a salesman.

You purists might defend BG.... why?

Dave

 

[petit_pablo]

Im a BG engineer and yes there is alot of pressure to sell. I however, wont sell unnessesary products to the unsuspecting customers.

Alot of "engineers" will try and blag their way out of a job by telling the customer they need to spend X amount to sort it. In reality they probably either dont know whats wrong or cant be bothered to try and remedy the issue.

This seems to becoming more common place within the company and gives the few decent engineers a bad name. Ive known customers be told that they need a powerflush when all that was required was a bit of balancing and or a new pump.

 

[gasright]

Same here

i'm an engineer for BG. For me being a good engineer is number 1. being a salesman is a little further down the list.

I always offer "best advice" when appropriate and its up to the customer to accept. no hard sell from me. Luckily the management don't want us to hard sell

Although i do think that all engineers must try and push Co detectors as they are as important as a smoke detector IMHO.

 

[ollski]

I may be missing something about the original rant but is there actually a problem somewhere?

If the head of the pump is faulty why would you change more?

You don't specify part manufacturers you have a suitable substitute if required.

You were told a rough guide price which you asked for.

Engineers get a very small renumeration for passing on sales leads which you are informed of before accepting a quote.

You were told the system was sludged up which is not covered by bg, bought some sludge remover which cleaned it out confirming the diagnosis.

 

[nickso]

Im a BG engineer and yes there is alot of pressure to sell. I however, wont sell unnessesary products to the unsuspecting customers.

Alot of "engineers" will try and blag their way out of a job by telling the customer they need to spend X amount to sort it. In reality they probably either dont know whats wrong or cant be bothered to try and remedy the issue.

This seems to becoming more common place within the company and gives the few decent engineers a bad name. Ive known customers be told that they need a powerflush when all that was required was a bit of balancing and or a new pump.

sadly you and i are a rare breed among the general population of BG morons.