Cable options when moving a socket

[crookesm]

Hi,

I have three double sockets in the front room - all of them are surface-mounted and I am in the process of flush-mounting them into the brickwork.

Two of them appear to be spurs from one ring socket (see the attached diagram). As well as flush-mounting the ring socket, my wife has asked that I move it roughly a metre to the right.

What are my options as regards recabling the ring socket? I'd like to avoid having to wire the four cables back into the socket as it was quite a tight fit when I took it off.

Many thanks!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What sort of floor do you have?

If you have 2 spurs then you'll have to have 4 cables. There are two ways to not have 4:

1. Get rid of one or both of the spurred sockets
   
   or
   
   
2. Re-cable it so that all the sockets are on the ring
   
   
   
   
   
   
   If you have access to under the floor that shouldn't be too hard to do.

Please be aware of the rules for concealed cables: [wiki]electrics%3Awalls[/wiki]

 

[crookesm]

Thanks for the response. Floorboards (which it looks like I'll now be lifting).

 

[ericmark]

We have argued about taking two spurs from same socket before. This is how I see the rule book. If the ring double socket was replaced for a pair of single sockets and a spur is taken from each that's OK. But to take two spurs from double socket is not. The question is why? Well ring in, ring out, spur out equals 3 wires and manufacturers state you can use up three wires in a socket. Once one uses 4 wires there is a chance one will not be fully gripped.

There is also the point taking too much current near one end of a ring can produce an over load. However it really does not matter if that is due to fig of 8, multi spurs, feed to garage or just a row of sockets all close to each other so I can't see that as a reason.

You can also fit a junction box and take a spur so in real terms it is all down to 4 wires in a hole. Three is the maximum. In real terms 4 x 2.5mm² is unlikely to cause a problem. But if the cable sizes vary then yes it can. So you need to decide if it needs changing or not.

As to moving right and left it is down to safe zones. So cable down the wall and want to move it meter to right means leave in original position or swap to blanking plate and new socket to right. But cables coming along the wall which is unusual but within the rules then easy. What may help is twin rather than double socket boxes which will allow two sockets and using them you can extend the ring. If double box already fitted look at grid switch sockets you can fit to sockets in a 4 module face plate which is same size as double socket.

 

[ericmark]

I was considering this method mainly as you don't need to extend cables.

 

[JohnW2]

View attachment 88449
I was considering this method mainly as you don't need to extend cables.

If it were done literally as per your diagram, the bottom cable would presumably not all be in a safe zone?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

....But to take two spurs from double socket is not. The question is why? Well ring in, ring out, spur out equals 3 wires and manufacturers state you can use up three wires in a socket. Once one uses 4 wires there is a chance one will not be fully gripped.

If one is concerned about that (as you go on to say, in practice 4 x 2.5mm² conductors is the terminal of a decent socket is unlikely to be a problem), is not your usual suggestion to use two 'socket modules' on a 'double' faceplate - in which case one needs only 3 conductors per terminal?

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Yes either twin socket box or two grid switch sockets will allow the split. And of course the cable looping below is for clarity it does need to be in safe zones. Although it may not comply with regulations I would not be worried two much about 4 wires of equal size in one hole.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes either twin socket box or two grid switch sockets will allow the split. And of course the cable looping below is for clarity it does need to be in safe zones. Although it may not comply with regulations I would not be worried two much about 4 wires of equal size in one hole.

All agreed.

Kind Regards, John

 

[crookesm]

Thanks chaps. The two spurs were already in place when I got there (honest!). Anyway, I've done as ban-all-sheds suggested, and added all the sockets onto the ring and, even though I've moved one of the sockets, I have cabled them from under the floorboards and behind the skirting board. Thanks again.