Can party wall notice served be cancelled?

[Heather2011]

Hi,

I recently served a party wall notice and a excavation notice to my neighbour for an extension work which was planned to joint onto a party wall (garage wall). Both notices were served back in August 2011.


the neighbour is happy for us to carry out the work but don't want to give consent until they are absolutely sure that the extension work will not damage their garage. We each hired a party wall surveyor to exam the building regs drawings and investigate their garage foundation, i.e. trial hole. As the process goes alone, their party wall surveyor starts to send us huge bills which are much higher than the original estimate. We don't have any disagreement on the work details but the things they demand to be checked are getting more and more, as so his surveyor's fee.

I'm not happy with this and fear that his surveyor will demand more once the building work starts next year or even after the work completes. Therefore, I want to change the design to make the extension un-notifiable, i.e. not joint onto the party wall and not within 3m of neighbour's property.

My question is that can I cancel the notices I have served? I'm fine to pay all the fees incurred so far but just don't want to get any more. The initial thought from my party wall surveyor is that we cannot and the only way to make it expire is to wait for a year, which is a bit shocking.


If I agree with my neighbour in writing to cancel the notices, can this be legitimate? If we can't agree on anything, then I have no idea where to take this further as I don't want to build anything onto or near his wall now so no award is needed.

If I just change the design to make the work unnotifiable, get planning permission and start the work, can my neighbour raise any dispute and demand more surveyor fees?

Would really appreciate any thoughts!

Thanks, Heather

 

[^woody^]

You can't cancel notices

You either need to alter the work to invalidate the notice or let the time periods expire

 

[spraggo]

Google "the party wall act" to find the answers your query.

 

[^woody^]

Google "the party wall act" to find the answers your query.

Yes ... what on earth was the OP thinking of by posting a question on a forum?

 

[big-all]

tell them and there surveyors you will not pay for any further work as your intentions have changed
i dont know but would have thought you would have to agree to specific action by the surveyor rather than just sending you the bill for unreasonable actions you haven't sanctioned
but to be hones that just a guess as i dont know

 

[Heather2011]

You can't cancel notices

You either need to alter the work to invalidate the notice or let the time periods expire

Thanks! I am planning to alter the work to invalidate the notice but just wanted to make sure that I won't have to carry on paying neighbour's surveyor if my neighbour carries on consulting him. He charges for every single phone call/email/letter he made......Just a few examples:

- My neighbour phoned him asking about an ownership question on the drawing, in my view nothing to do with party wall agreement, and he charges me for it
- In the first site visit when the two surveyors met, my neighbour sit them both down and played piano for half and hour......and I have to pay for his time!

 

[Heather2011]

Google "the party wall act" to find the answers your query.

I wish it would be that easy to find out the answer...

 

[spraggo]

I would contact your local trading standards office and explain your neighbours surveyors fee`s to them.

 

[rgibson63]

Hi Heather, I sympathise with you. The dispute resolution process under the PWA falls away (and all work by PW surveyors must stop) as soon as;

a) the neighbour decides to consent, or
b) you no longer propose undertaking any work controlled by the PWA.

So, your options are;

a) Persuade your neighbour to consent. Nothing wrong in you offering them a payment to cover the cost of them seeking their own advice, and let them know that consent can be withdrawn at any time they choose (say if damage were to occur perhaps?) and you would just then need to pick up the dispute resolution process where you left it.

b) As you suggested, change the design so the work you propose is no longer covered by the Act.

Once one of these things happens, there is no need to cancel the notices as the application of the Act just melts away by itself. You just need to pay the surveyors fees work work executed up until that point. Feel free to contact me directly if you need official advice in the matter, or have any further queries.

 

[Heather2011]

Hi Heather, I sympathise with you. The dispute resolution process under the PWA falls away (and all work by PW surveyors must stop) as soon as;

a) the neighbour decides to consent, or
b) you no longer propose undertaking any work controlled by the PWA.

So, your options are;

a) Persuade your neighbour to consent. Nothing wrong in you offering them a payment to cover the cost of them seeking their own advice, and let them know that consent can be withdrawn at any time they choose (say if damage were to occur perhaps?) and you would just then need to pick up the dispute resolution process where you left it.

b) As you suggested, change the design so the work you propose is no longer covered by the Act.

Once one of these things happens, there is no need to cancel the notices as the application of the Act just melts away by itself. You just need to pay the surveyors fees work work executed up until that point. Feel free to contact me directly if you need official advice in the matter, or have any further queries.

Big thank you! that's really useful information. I've tried phoning CAB, Community of Local Government, etc in the last couple of days and no one could advise. It's such a relieve to know that I'm not 'tied in' with the notice.

Just a few more questions on what happens next, e.g. do I need to write to the neighbours about this? I'll drop you a message. Hope that's ok.

Thanks again!

 

[^woody^]

Feel free to contact me directly if you need official advice in the matter, or have any further queries.

Can anyone contact you for this official advice, and will it be free - or will your PI cover require that you charge for the advice?

Personally, I'd prefer to see the questions and answers posted on the forum so that it helps everybody

 

[Heather2011]

Hi all,

Just a quick upate - My surveyor has got back to me this morning and advised the same thing. He's going to write to my neighbours about the plan change. So hopefully this would sort things out. I do, however, have another problem and would like to get a second opinion.

Although extension won't be joining onto any party wall, I'm still planning to convert the garage into a bedroom and the garage is sharing a wall with the same neighbour's garage. I had been concentrating on the extension so much that I completely forgot this is a party wall too! How frustrating......

My surveyor says usually I will need to serve Party Structure Notice for this wall, unless I can prove that the garage conversion work won't 'touch' the part of the wall which belongs to my neighbour. The current design is to put a stud wall with insulation. Advise from my surveyor is that if I can:

- either make the stud wall dependant, i.e. not attached onto the party wall, or
- make sure that nails/screws are not going through to the neighbour's side of the brick, i.e. less than half of a brick depth (does that make sense?)

then I might not need to serve party structure notice.

Any thoughts from anyone that this would work? and technically is it possible to make a stud wall not attaching onto the party wall?

Thanks!

 

[^woody^]

My surveyor says usually I will need to serve Party Structure Notice for this wall, unless I can prove that the garage conversion work won't 'touch' the part of the wall !

That's wrong

The PWA defines instances when a PW notice is required (cutting, chasing, raising, sitting a beam into etc) but touching is not one of them

In practice you will have to insulate between the garages and you would do this with a timber frame fixed top and bottom and kept independent from the wall. This would be just for good building practice and nothing to do with the PWA

 

[rgibson63]

The PWA cannot define every single operation that might fall within its remit, so common sense is necessary, and opinions might vary, slightly. Most surveyors would agree that putting up shelves screwed into the PW would not be covered, but (say) cutting a small alcove in it might be. I don't think that many practising PW surveyors would consider that affixing a stud wall to a PW (however deep the fixings are) would be notifiable work. Its the sort of thing that most people would just do without asking their neighbour!

 

[Heather2011]

That's wrong

The PWA defines instances when a PW notice is required (cutting, chasing, raising, sitting a beam into etc) but touching is not one of them

I am confused about the 'touching' part too. Checking on PWA, in Section 2 it says if I intend to "increase the thickness of the party walll and, if necessary, cut off any projections which prevent you from doing so..." then I have inform my neighbour.

So I think the question is whether adding stud wall considered as increasing the thickness of the wall.