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EddieM
I have no debt at all. No mortgage, no loans, no credit or store cards and in the black...... That said I own practically nothing, no house, no car etc etc!
Can the UK escape bankruptcy?
- Thread starter joe-90
- Start date
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Growth is only a capitalist concept. Growth does not need to continue in order to survive and have a reasonably happy and stable world. Nor is it possible for growth to continue as we are now seeing again. It happened before and it's happened now. It will happen again. It's inevitable. Growth is only for the greedy.
Growth comes from increases in productivity which then leads to economic surplus that you can do something useful with. Nothing wrong with that per se.
That's how it used to be centuries ago before banks and governments decided to skim off this increased productivity by expanding the money supply debasing the currency and running ponzi schemes.
The real enemy isn't capitalism, it's the distortion of capitalism by bankers, governments and their cronies.
Ok but increases in productivity is something which is also unnecessary in terms of keeping a business afloat. Why keep increasing productivity? Achieve a satisfactory level and then keep it at that. There is no need for an economic surplus which you can do something useful with! I'm not saying I'm against growth and making more money I'm just saying that while ever that is human nature we will always have periods of growth followed by crashes and recession. The only reason we have growth in business is because of planned obsolescence and the constant need to upgrade and buy the latest model. Without that built in lifespan of a product, output would continue but it would not grow to the extent which keeps making larger profits year on year. Remember the first light bulbs - designed and made to last over 2500 hours until the Phoebus cartel forced manufacturers to lower the life span to 1000 hours or less! Now look where we are with light bulbs again - designing them to last upto 25 years!! What a turnaround
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Well I'm with you when it comes to my distaste for consumerism and the throw away society. My washing machine is an ISE that cost £900 because I was sick of 5hitty cheap ones breaking. I've had my car for 11 years, my dishwasher for 20 years and my stereo for 24 years. When stuff breaks I fix it if I possibly can. I only buy stuff that I can afford - that means no credit (other than a mortgage that I could easily afford and pay off early).
The trouble is, most people are not like this, they want it now rather than saving for it and because they can't afford a proper one, they end up with cheap crap bought on credit. That's the bankers again, enabling consumerism with low monthly payments, supported by a government that likes the effect on the GDP figures.
On increasing productivity - the trouble is that if you don't do it, someone else will. Whether it's the British car industry, shops on the high street or a local tradesman being undercut by a harder working (or less greedy) competitor. This is all made worse when the country becomes less efficient compared to other countries.
Totally with you on that. I also have an ISE washer now but I darn well fixed the hot point until it could be fixed no more. Both cars are 10 years old and I fix them. I only am in debt with the mortgage nothing else. When my printer failed I found a spares or repairs one on eBay and got the part I needed out of that one and salvaged anything else.
I am in a very well paid Job and my colleagues cannot understand my logic as they all have the latest Mercedes Porsches and bmw's and buy everything new as soon as it comes out or when there old one has a minor problem. For me the money I earn is for my family and myself to enjoy the short life we all have without having every penny go straight into a banks profits.
Unless the whole world united then unfortunately growth is an inevitable requirement and the culture that goes with it has lead to the unfortunate times we face today.
I am in a very well paid Job and my colleagues cannot understand my logic as they all have the latest Mercedes Porsches and bmw's and buy everything new as soon as it comes out or when there old one has a minor problem. For me the money I earn is for my family and myself to enjoy the short life we all have without having every penny go straight into a banks profits.
Unless the whole world united then unfortunately growth is an inevitable requirement and the culture that goes with it has lead to the unfortunate times we face today.
Most people haven't been like this true but I think the tide is generally turning people are saving more and paying back debt. May be not enough/fast enough but I think there is a change.
The flip-side is that not everyone enjoys repairing stuff, would some people rather spend a few hours labour fixing something, or would they rather spend a few hours wage getting someone else to do it, or buying another on credit, then doing something with their time they enjoy.
Buying new stuff isnt all just rampant consumerism, some would rather have a new car, as the cost to them is worth more than the potential lost hours in breakdown and repair.
When you earn £10 an hour, maybe it's better to buy a new toaster for £30 then spend 3 hours trying to figure out how to repair it.
I used to be too. I've always lived well within my means and my spending remained pretty constant as my career progressed and I earned more. My colleagues began to understand my logic when I quit for semi retirement aged 48.... I look at every major purchase in terms of how much I will have to work in order to have it.
I don't disagree but before all this consumerist nonsense took off, you would pay a man who fixes toasters £5 to sort it. Nowdays it goes to the tip.
There in lies the problem - I would say yes it's better to work out how and spend 3 hours fixing it than spending 3 hours wages to buy new. You may use 3 hours of your time but you will still have your 3 hours wages in the bank for something else!
I know some people don't like mending things but throw away society ideals cannot go on for ever - do you know where most WEE actually ends up? In Africa dumped on nature rich areas. Whole areas have been devastated by the west dumping WEE which is reported as being recycled
And If I spend that 3 hours saved money on leisure, well I could have just spent it on a new toaster and had 3 hours leisure, neither approach is wrong.
You enjoy fixing things, I sometimes do, but a lot of people don't.
I'd rather not tell people what is "better" and what they should do, stick your holier than thou righteousness where the sun doesn't shine.
Sorry, but why should I care?
We give them money to dispose of it properly, if they choose to pocket the money and dump **** on themselves, well that's their problem. The waste can be recycled properly, that it might not be isn't a cause to not make waste.
Do you know how much waste housebuilding creates, should we stop building houses?
Silliness.
I don't think the villagers would agree that it's their problem. Especially not when it's companies owned by the west who are dumping it all there out of sight and out of mind.
The point I'm trying to make is not that everyone should fix things instead of buying new, it's that manufacturers design stuff to last only a finite amount of time when they could last alot longer purely so that they fail and people have to replace. This of course spans from the fact that shareholders and other investors would not be happy seeing the same profits year on year they only want to see profit growth year on year. Growth cannot keep going forever - we are seeing that now. We saw it in the 70's and before that in the 20's! This will continue to happen in the culture that we have come to know. Periods of growth followed by massive crashes and contraction, slowly recovering and beginning another period of growth until the next crash.
The point I'm trying to make is not that everyone should fix things instead of buying new, it's that manufacturers design stuff to last only a finite amount of time when they could last alot longer purely so that they fail and people have to replace. This of course spans from the fact that shareholders and other investors would not be happy seeing the same profits year on year they only want to see profit growth year on year. Growth cannot keep going forever - we are seeing that now. We saw it in the 70's and before that in the 20's! This will continue to happen in the culture that we have come to know. Periods of growth followed by massive crashes and contraction, slowly recovering and beginning another period of growth until the next crash.
Paul Tucker from the BoE wants a base rate below zero to kick start the economy. Negative interest.
The money printing machines are being oiled again also for a fourth time since the crash.
Sounds like desperate measures.
Only the cavalry of new labour can save the day with massive borrowing and spending for future generations to pay off.
And straight up the eiger we go.
The money printing machines are being oiled again also for a fourth time since the crash.
Sounds like desperate measures.
Only the cavalry of new labour can save the day with massive borrowing and spending for future generations to pay off.
And straight up the eiger we go.
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