Is there an answer to the economic conundrum?

[joe-90]

Personally, I don't think there is.

The bottom line is that when the East was poor, the West was rich. The East isn't poor now though - we are.

If we stop the borrowing - (about 100 billion quid per year) then no pensions or benefits can be paid.

If we continue borrowing then our credit rating will be downgraded and we go the way of Greece.

So is there an answer? I can't see it - can you?

 

[Diyisfun]

Live to your means. People 1st .
Why does every 18 year old have to buy a car.
There is a big difference between NEED & WANT.

 

[joe-90]

But he will pay tax on the petrol that he buys - so is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[Micilin]

We need to increase the tax take(not with higher taxes) as well as cutting day to day expenditure.

One step would be to stop cutting capital expenditure, these are not real savings, just delayed savings that will cost us more - the equivalent of not painting your fascia to save a bit of cash but then having to replace them when they rot.

We could use capital expenditure to reduce day to day running costs in the long term.

First example would be increased housing stock to stop ridiculous amounts being paid on housing benefit and also reduce the cost of property.

The decision to sell council houses but not allow the coucils to use the proceeds to build more was a disaster.Young people need to be aspirational , but buying a flat is out of reach for many so they don't even try.

Brownfield where possible , while land is not as expensive as in a boom.
This would also give a lift to the associated busnesses

If a disproportionate amount of our income is spent on maintaining a roof over our heads,then the lower disposable income will not be enough to keep the economy bouyant.

The Coalition were right to tackle debt and borrowing, but the shock of a 40% cut only served to shrik the economy rather than balance income v expenditure. When they came in, the economy was growing and unemployment was falling. The expectation of recession is as bad as the actual recession and becomes self fulfilling.

At the moment, having no expectation of growth is not helping , and with the govt having to borrow more than they said it seems that the counrty has gone through a lot of pain with little gain.

We need to look at our manufacturing base and heavy industry, At the moment we are importing coal -okay the green view may be we should not be burning it, but if we are burning it we should be paying our own workers to mine it.

What can we make that we are importing?

We need to get software and financial services that target developing countries - even android apps in Mandarin and Portugese at 5p a pop.

Let's look at what the Germans do in terms of labour law , taxation etc what makes them so different from Italy , who were the 4th biggest EU economy.

Govt's can't 'create' jobs , and shouldn't . But they have to supply conditions to encourage job creation.

Biggest short term fix -imporove lending to small businesses in a real way.

 

[EddieM]

Start making stuff the world wants to buy?

 

[merlin50]

nationalise the banks water gas electric would be a start and put a cap on the wages especially the BBC

 

[Nige F]

First example would be increased housing stock to stop ridiculous amounts being paid on housing benefit and also reduce the cost of property.

The decision to sell council houses but not allow the coucils to use the proceeds to build more was a disaster.Young people need to be aspirational , but buying a flat is out of reach for many so they don't even try.

Brownfield where possible , while land is not as expensive as in a boom.
This would also give a lift to the associated busnesses

If a disproportionate amount of our income is spent on maintaining a roof over our heads,then the lower disposable income will not be enough to keep the economy bouyant.

.

And you think new tory boy will go with that

 

[chapeau]

So is there an answer? I can't see it - can you?

The solution to our problem requires a substantial cut in our standard of living.

We live in a democracy where you get a vote even though you take more money out of the economy than you put in.

Mass demonstration in London today by people who fit this description and will vote out any government who tries to solve the economic problems by prescribing the nasty medicine it needs. i.e pay back what we owe.

So we are stuffed. The solution will eventually be forced on us and it will not be pretty.

 

[Micilin]

nationalise the banks water gas electric would be a start and put a cap on the wages especially the BBC

There is an argument for utilites - but if anyone remembers trying to get a phone before privatisation, I'm not sure nationalisation is the answer.

 

[AronSearle]

but the shock of a 40% cut

Spending has increased every year slightly above inflation, this information is readily accessible.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/budget_current.php?fy=2009

2008 - 570 billion
209 - 631 billion
2010 - 654 billion
2011 - 690 billion
2012 - 703 billion (projected)

The coalition are ****.

But I really don't understand why anyone buys labours "to many cuts too soon", and out of who's ass is that 40% figure from?






We had an artificial credit supply, this caused a housing bubble created by "fake" money, and the government to increase expenditure based upon the income of this "fake" money.


Now this "fake" money has disappeared, we are just returning to where we would have been without it.

The government is making it worse by trying to hold spending at pre "fake" money levels, and increasing tax to do so.

There is an argument for utilites

Really, why?

Want to know why we have a water shortage, it's those nasty private water companies right?

or/....

As for power, it's the same story, carbon taxes and a constantly shifting planning field for new stations is scaring of any new investment.

 

[ladylola]

I have to agree with merlin on that one , nationalisation of all transport, utilities, banks, energy production and large industry would be a start and then probably any firm employing over 25 people. This country used to own loads of industry but it's all been sold off in return for a short term profit mainly to forigners , and forign investment is nothing more than a way of exporting wealth from any country.
As that isn't going to happen any time soon how about a few simple measures, for example if an employer makes someone redundant then the employer should pay for all that persons benifits and retrianing course for a year.

 

[chapeau]

Cloud Cookoo Land.

And you have the vote

Where is the money to pay the existing shareholders i.e. owners when you nationalise these companies?

Or do you expect them to just 'take the hit' ???

The existing shareholders include the pension funds us private sector workers (those lucky enough to have a pension) depend on to pay our pension when we retire.

 

[Micilin]

I have to agree with merlin on that one , nationalisation of all transport, utilities, banks, energy production and large industry would be a start and then probably any firm employing over 25 people. This country used to own loads of industry but it's all been sold off in return for a short term profit mainly to forigners , and forign investment is nothing more than a way of exporting wealth from any country.
As that isn't going to happen any time soon how about a few simple measures, for example if an employer makes someone redundant then the employer should pay for all that persons benifits and retrianing course for a year.

So if I emply 24 people, I'm not going to create any more jobs as I will lose my company to the govt.

Great way to boost the economy???

Number is irrelevant, the way to reward industry is with profit and fair taxes

 

[Diyisfun]

Start making stuff the world wants to buy?

NEEDS not WANTS
=======
Spend what you have, dont borrow.
I bet there arnt many people adding to this thread that are debt free.
Then think about why you are in debt, dont tell me the children wanted this & that, let them make do with a stick & a ball.

 

[Micilin]

But I really don't understand why anyone buys labours "to many cuts too soon", and out of who's ass is that 40% figure from?

David Cameron's.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...w-40-cent-spending-cuts--biggest-history.html


Remember it's about perception and confidence. Cameron may have made these noises to reassure the markets, but it made business pull in their horns on spending