Can uPVC windows be altered?

[yjones]

Hi all

I order some big pvc windows which were meant to look out into the garden. The chap said they would have a thin astragal bar going down the centre which I agreed to. However, these were installed yesterday and they look awful! The bar is very wide and ruins the view!

I dont have the money to take the windows out and put new windows in.

Is there any way the bar can be reduced or removed completely? I know this will mean new glazing, but I want to check if this is even possible.

Thanks

 

[Gazman16]

Can you post a pic?
Assuming it is what you say it is and not a transom/mullion then yes shouldn't be a major problem. Would just need new glass

 

[yjones]

Ive just looked again and its a Mullion bar. Is this a non-starter? Ill post a photo later.

 

[yjones]

Here are the windows:

Can anything be done with the above bar ripping them out and starting again?

And heres a smaller window. Theres just so much plastic!!:

 

[Gazman16]

Only option would be new differently designed windows.
The section thickness's are pretty similar what ever make you use. There are some thin framed aluminum windows around but personally I would say the price tag is not worth the extra cost unless you have tiny windows (2-3 times the price of PVC).

 

[Ian H]

They looks like patio doors on my screen.

 

[yjones]

Theyre meant to be tall windows with a view out onto the fields. I wanted a thin bar down the centre so they wouldnt feel to modern, but its a wide bit of plastic obscuring the view!!!

 

[Ian H]

I wouldn't be happy with the guy saying its a thin bar then fitting that. Like you say, loads of plastic, not much glass. What's he said?

I said patio door because they look very similar to some here:

 

[yjones]

Have I got any comeback? He'll say that I signed off the spec - but Im not a window installer!! I dont know the difference between a mullion bar and an astra bar! He came to the house and could see what we were trying to achieve!! My builder also noticed that he'd installed the 2 kitchen windows at different heights!!
Is there an ombudsmen or someone I can complain too!?

 

[Gazman16]

Can you get a better photo of the tall one? Too dark and too close.
We are assuming they are doors by the look of it but really cant tell from your photos.
Post some photos of the windows at different heights too.

Assuming they are doors thats just they way they are. You possibly could have gone with aluminum rather than PVC to get an extra 30-50mm of glass but they would have been around 3 times the price.
If it is a window (which it doesn't look like) then it possibly could have been designed differently.

 

[yjones]

Here are some more photos (external and internal). As you can see, theyre almost the size of patio doors. What they were MEANT to be were big windows with a thin lie down the centre. There looks to be more plastic down the middle that in your photo of actual patio doors!!

This is certainly NOT what I was expecting, the installer knew what we were trying to achieve. What do you think? What recourse do I have?

BTW, these were taken on a very sunny morning, they are a lot darker normally.

 

[Notch7]

Sadly its a lack of communication between you and the supplier.

Its unfortunate that the supplier didnt explain clearly to you what the sighylines would be. Maybe also you diidnt communicate your expectations fully.

Its hard yo see any recourse you coild have. If you agreed to the window configuration then the windows are correct.

If you want tall narrow windows with 2 sashes, you will always have a big amount of frame and sash stile in the centre.

Your options are; change the windows to a single fixed light. Or maybe change them to a French door window with no centre mullion, so when the sashes are open there is no middle bar.

I make timber windows and I know from experience that the amount of frame to glass can be an issue. Its a particular problem with timber windows as the sightline of traditional timber windows single glazed can be quite different to new double glazed windows. I often do scale drawings showing exactly what frane thickbesses will be. I also sometimes put masking tspe on existing windows to show what the new glass line will be.

Double glazing needs bigger rebates to cover the spacer bar. Therefore the sash stiles, head and cill are all bigger. That results in smaller glass sightlines.

 

[yjones]

Thanks Notch7.

I did communicate what we wanted. We wanted big open views of the field. I was expecting him - as a professional - to advise accordingly. I cant be expected to know all the terminology they use - it should be explained in layman's terms.

If he had used masking tape (like you do) or at least showed measurements - then I would have instantly realised this is not what we wanted!!

Are you saying that even with timber double glazed windows you have this issue? I was thinking of timber, but it was cost prohibitive.

 

[Notch7]

In timber, the centre section would be about 160mm wide with a central mullion.

With rebated French door style sashes and no mullion, width would be about 130mm

Edge of plaster to glass would be about 85mm.

Aluminium would be the only slimmer option.

Whatever you chose, the centre part can nver be a slim bar, that cant be achieved with a window with 2 sashes. You will always have 2 x stiles and the mullion.

I think the window configuration is wrong. They should either have been wider, or a fan light at top over a single direct glazed light below.

Or just a single pane fixed and a window elsewhere for ventilation.

 

[Gazman16]

Ok so they are defiantly windows and not doors. Also looks to be flush sash windows.
I cant see any handles or handle holes on them, Do they not open at all?
If they don't open and these are the only 2 windows in an upstairs room he may be contravening building regulations for fire escape