Can uPVC windows be altered?

[Tigercubrider]

Didn't the installer provide a cad illustration of (at least) the windows?

There are rules about fire escape - do the windows open?

 

[Notch7]

Yes I thought they were flush sashes, R7 or R9 type.

I assumed they are openers, why else have sashes.

If they are fixed and dont need to be opening, why not just have 1 big pane of glass

Are there handle holes?

If they are fire egress they need to have 450mm clear opening

 

[Gazman16]

If they are fire egress they need to have 450mm clear opening

Not necessarily 450mm. Under Fensa as long as its not made worse than the original its allowed. Although it is recommended to try to improve things.
If however he isn't FENSA registered and building control are signing them off there could be problems

 

[Notch7]

Not necessarily 450mm. Under Fensa as long as its not made worse than the original its allowed. Although it is recommended to try to improve things.
If however he isn't FENSA registered and building control are signing them off there could be problems

Yes of course, I wasnt thinking about replacement of existing.

Always best to keep photos of exiting before just in case it gets questioned

 

[yjones]

Thanks guys - your replies are helpful. To answer your questions:

- The installer is FENSA registered
- These are groundfloor windows (but I can see why you think theyre not ground floor: the ground floor is a metre above the ground outside becuase the house is built on a slope)
- I had a word with the builder today. He said that they are actually 2 windows, but have been built so the mullion bar is preventing them from opening, so in effect making them windows that are permanently closed.

All the builders and the building controller have commented how bad they look, so I know its not just me being 'picky'. The vertical slider sash windows at the front of the house were installed, and they look good (although smaller than the original sash windows that were there, which again is disappointing, but I can live with that). So I was looking forward to seeing these 'new flush slimline' casement windows at the back. Bitterly dissapointed - what was once a bright side of the house is now noticeably darker! All I can do is hope that he has some compassion/understanding that these were so obviously not what we talked about and that he's the professional.

Another thing I havnt mentioned is that the builders showed me he had installed the 2 kitchen windows at different heights!! They have pointed this out to him and he is coming back out to fix that, but it speaks volumes doesnt it?

Ive been on the FENSA website, but it doesnt look like I can lodge a complaint for a non-building reg matter. :/

 

[Gazman16]

Right ok we kind of know where you stand now and yes your correct Fensa are only concerned with building regs.

Now does your contract state Astragal bars down the center of these windows? Because those are not Astragal bars.
(see my photo for a vertical sliding window with an Astragal bar down the center which is approx 20mm thick).
What you have is a mullion and 2 dummy sash's side by side.

If your contract states Astragal bar you may have some comeback here. If it does I think either he has filled out the ordering sheet wrong or his suppliers have made it wrong and hes just gone ahead and fitted them anyway hoping to get away with it.

Possibly worth posting a scan of the wording in the quote/contract with your details edited out.

 

[yjones]

Ive just read the spec. It doesnt mention mullion bars. It does mention Astragal bars on the vertical sliders - which Im happy with, but doesnt say anything for the casements. Heres the picture I got:

DS: Dummy sash; TV: trickle vent

Im happy to PM you the spec/wording if youd like to take a look? (I wont post it here where its publicly available as it would be unfair - at this point - to name the company).

They also fitted the wrong handles on all windows; and some of the brushes were missing from the vertical sliders. I know thats a minor thing, but Im starting to get the picture now!!

 

[Notch7]

Well they have supplied as per the drawing it would seem to me.

It seems odd they are both dummy sashes...did you not want openers?

If you wanted the view more than window style, why didnt you have 1 big bit of glass in a frame?

Or you couldve had a single sash but with a mid rail to give a bit of a vertical slider feel.

Upvc tends to be a bit restictive on sizing, so maybe a single frame or sash would be outside the manufacturing parameters.

 

[yjones]

Yes, I suppose you could say that they supplied as per spec - but a bit of common sense would dictate that - given the bar is so wide - it wouldnt be what I wanted. Even if he put the measurement of the bar on the diagram I would have picked up on this then!

 

[Notch7]

I think all you can do is discuss what it is you want with the supplier and see if they will re supply a different configuration FOC or do a deal with you. Im not legally you have any options.

It would seem your installer, if he did the sale, didnt communicate very well with you what he was intending to supply. Or at least he didnt interprete your requirements very well into what he thought could be made. To be fair, a window frame of that width would usually be split into 2 with a central mullion.

A cheap solution would be to take out the fixed sashes and direct glaze into the frame. The centre mullion would then only be about 60mm wide. Overall you could gain about 160mm more glass width for the window and about 80mm on the height. Thats assuming the profile allows direct glazing - most do, but Ive never dealt with flush casements.

 

[crank39]

You could salvage this by removing both dummy sashes along with the mullion which isn't welded into the frame and direct glazing into the outer frame, this would of course mean you need 4 new beads cutting and the windows would be externally beaded but at 1m off the ground might not be too much of a problem

 

[yjones]

Thanks guys.

Notch7: I suppose 60mm is a bit more what I was expecting it would be in the first place. What do you think the charge would be for this?

Crank39: So what youre suggesting would give me 1 whole pane with no bars? I like it. What do you think the charge would be for this?

BTW: these windows are Platinum Heritage Flush.

 

[Notch7]

If the mullion isnt welded then It should be possible to unscrew it - I expect that would entail taking the window out to do.

Price for doing that and 1 large dg unit, or keeping mullion and 2 smaller dg units + the beads......probably same price really.

How much? I dont know - I expect the other guys would have a better idea. The glass would be say £50 each. 1 big pane maybe more like £150 if it needs to be 6mm.

 

[crank39]

Thanks guys.

Notch7: I suppose 60mm is a bit more what I was expecting it would be in the first place. What do you think the charge would be for this?

Crank39: So what youre suggesting would give me 1 whole pane with no bars? I like it. What do you think the charge would be for this?

BTW: these windows are Platinum Heritage Flush.

Yes it looks like the centre mullion isn't welded into frame but rather a mechanical butt joint, the screws holding it in place are put in from around the perimeter and like Notch says to get to them you'd have to take the window out, you could also just cut the majority of the mullion out leaving the ends to break away with a sharp chisel, probably easier to remove the window to be fair, check with the builder/manufacturer that direct glazing is an option, I'm guessing the bead channel in the outer frame now has the monkey fur draught excluder slid into it being a flush sash profile, this could be pulled out but check first that the remaining groove will accept a bead, if it will then your good to go, one piece of glass, it would need to be safety glass just like you have now, Notch mentioned 6mm because of the area, possibly so but you might be able to get away with 4mm, the fabricators window designer software will do the calcs for that though

 

[Gazman16]

Thats Deceuninck flush sash.
They could possibly be "Timber weld" which even though it looks mechanical is still welded.
Assuming its not welded it could just be a case of removing the mullion and making one large dummy sash and one large new DGU.

But the company has supplied what was shown in the above diagrams/contract.
They sound a reasonable company coming back to sort other issues so hopefully you guys can come to an agreement or solution to the problem.