Cannot get weight out of pocket, help!

[leew2]

Currently trying to re-cord a sash and case window. I have opened up the pockets but cannot get the weights out! The pocket opening seems too short for the tall weights. The weight in the picture is sat on the cill, if I pull it up so the top of the weight is at the top of the opening, I can tilt it out by maybe two thirds of the weight diameter but then it binds and I cannot pull it any more. Any idea how I can get these weights out without damaging the window, surely they must have gone in somehow?

 

[KenGMac]

leew2, good evening.

A couple of things?

1/. I see in the posted Image that the "Parting Bead" [the piece of rounded timber] between the upper and lower sashes has not been fully removed? is it this that is preventing the Weight from withdrawing?

2/. At times a build up of dirt and debris at the base of the Pocket on top of the Sill can??? lift the Weight in such a way as to go some way to stop the weight being removed.

Looking again at the Posted Image I think that 1/. above is your best bet? the Parting Bead can be removed over its full height because the lower sash has also been removed.

Ken.

 

[leew2]

I don't think it is the parting bead because it is loose out of the groove and I pushed it to the side but still could not get the weight out, it seems to be the height of the pocket opening which is the problem rather than the width, ta.

 

[maltaron]

Why take it out? you can record with it in its current position.

 

[KenGMac]

leew2, Hi again.

As maltaron, a distinct possibility.

Also I cannot see the second Weight in the Pocket? are there 2? and is it possible the Weights are one behind another jamming each other in there?

Just a consideration?

Ken

 

[bobsuerita]

you need to take weight up past the opening then pull the weight out bottom first

 

[KenGMac]

bobsuerita, good evening.

Good call ! that has to work

I must admit it must be something like 40 + Years since I did my last re-rope on a Sash and Case window, WoW doesn't time fly when you are having fun, having said that i really did like replacing Sash Ropes, especially when you did the Criss Cross withe the rope and re-roped all four weights with one feed in of the rope? [not re-roping individual weights]

As I recall you introduced the rope on either of the top sash rollers, using [What was called a "Moose" or "Mouse" -- a small piece of say lead, or if you were really lucky? a small section of very old sash chain, --Sash Chain was used on really large heavy Sashes-- attached to a bit of string, the string being attached to the rope] you dropped the string followed by the rope over the upper sash roller and down to the pocket the weight of the Moose / Mouse dragged the string down to the Pocket, next move was to re-introduce the "moose" and string, still attached to the rope into the top sash on the opposite side, repeat for the lower sash.

As I recall you could re-rope a window from start to finish very, very quickly, one slow part was to get the old nails [if fitted] out of the rope groove in the window sashes, then [Top tip??] we used a Candle to apply a lubrication to the edges of the two sashes and also the sash sides, we also rubbed the candle grease on to the Case, the Parting bead, and batten Rod, where the sashes rubbed in, this to give the Customer an easier feel to the movement of the two sashes.

Nice wander down memory lane [for me at least?] I did like that sort of work?

Ken.

 

[leew2]

Thanks for the replies, I put the sash and staff beads (baton rods for those up north) back in on sat to make it secure and will have another look when we have another nice weekend (dunno how long that will be...). Being a cyclist I used a length of bike chain as a "mouse" I don't bother with the Criss Cross thing, this guy:

does not recommend it as it's too easy to do it wrong and get yourself in a right mess.
I need to get the weights out so I can weigh them. The original Edwardian glass in the bottom sash has been replaced with float glass at some point which I believe is normally thicker and therefore heavier and can upset the balance of the window. I have bought some small "add weights" I can add on top of the original weights to make up any imbalance. Also I believe it will make it easier to access the top sash weights but thinking about it I could tie ropes to the bottom sash weights and then pull them to the top of the case and tie knots to keep them there out the way.
Yes, getting the ropes off the sashes was hard, especially as whoever had last re-roped it was lazy and had just cut-off the old ropes and nailed new ones on higher up leaving a bit of old rope in place. I routed out the sashes and fitted cleats from readyseals to do away with need for nailing the cord to the sash.

 

[KenGMac]

leew2, good evening again.

A couple of things, first the Sash Weights, the older ones at least have the Weight, of the Weights on them by way of a number that was formed on the Weight near the top of the Weight, generally in lbs.

As for keeping the lower sash weights "out of the way?"
I used to hoist the Weights to the top of the pocket, then using the nails in the sash cord, simply knock a nail into the area of the case where the lower sash fits, no visible nail hole and faster than tying knot in what will probably be a stiff non-flexible bit of old cord?

As for routing the sash edge, there was a device called a "bullet" a circular short hollow tube like device with a hole in the side where the cord fitted in and had a Knot made to hold the cord, the trick was that the "bullet" had the same Diameter as a Yale night latch, other such devices are available?

 

[leew2]

Well after having a day of decent weather, I re-visited this window. I did manage to get the weights out in the end. When I initially tried to remove them bottom first by lowering them down I could not get them out but today I tried rotating the weight 90 degrees and then it came out fine The top end of the weights have got like a taper on them so that taper has to be in the correct orientation in order for it to come out.

 

[pvcpro73]

Clever stuff! I was going to suggest a sledge hammer and crowbar but it looks like you're sorted now