Cause of UPVC inner door panel warping inwards?

[GloriousMajesty]

Hi all,

Manufacturer is unable to explain the cause, so hopefully someone here can help me?

The lower part of my UPVC door panel (within the door and under glass) bowed inwards during one cold winter, then adjusted itself over warmer months - almost back to normal, but with a slight inward warp. The panel has now cracked in 4 'corners' above and below the letterbox area on the outside UPVC only - but the warping occurred in the decorative panel below this. It will be replaced under warranty.

The core material is double MDF and polystyrene (assuming they installed what I paid for).

A heater is the other side of the room, so it's not near any direct source of heat. Manufacturer is aware of woodgrain foil problems occurring in the summer and products have been improved, but is unable to explain why this has happened in winter and therefore give me any guarantee that it won't occur again!

Does anyone know why UPVC would warp like this in winter and then eventually crack?

 

[crank39]

I see this fault at least once a day while i'm out assessing, only happens on woodgrain panels and not white, the dark surface absorbs more heat in the summer than a white product and in winter shrinks more, the reason its failed at the corners is because as the panel skins are vacuum formed the corners of the raised portion become stressed so any form of expansion/contraction and they'll eventually fail.

My panel supplier WILL NOT guarantee any panel for this particular fault if its going in a south facing elevation unless its a flat panel

 

[GloriousMajesty]

Many thanks for explanation. Hopefully as manufacturer has improved the woodgrain foil properties, this will not occur with the replacement. Apparently the 10yr warranty continues from the original panel installation as opposed to re-starting with the new one? Seems a bit odd to me!

Naïve question, but ... would opting for a solid MDF core make any difference or is the core just about the security of the door?

 

[crank39]

Panels aren't foiled; I think they're printed but in any case its the dark surface that sucks up the heat, the solid core will make no difference as the corners are still under stress and are actually hollow underneath as the MDF and even the polystyrene doesn't fill the void

I work for a double glazing insurer so as far as the warranty goes then yes the 10 years starts from date of completion and not again when a part is replaced otherwise 1 door for instance might have the panel replaced after 5 years, the locking mech after 7, the DGU after 8 so you'd end up with 3 guarantees running along side the original 10 year one, it could turn out that the door never ran out of some sort of warranty, I think by law you have to be given no less than 1 year on a repair.

Furthermore most policies do not cover sun damage so worth bearing in mind if ever the original installer ceases trading and you needed to claim

 

[GloriousMajesty]

Praying the replacement will withstand subsequent summers - installed on south facing elevation!
Begs the question why we as customers are not given the full facts before we choose our DG products. Will have long checklist if I ever need to buy UPVC doors and windows in the future

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

 

[crank39]

Praying the replacement will withstand subsequent summers - installed on south facing elevation!
Begs the question why we as customers are not given the full facts before we choose our DG products. Will have long checklist if I ever need to buy UPVC doors and windows in the future

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

The salesman will not go into the in's and outs what might or might not fail within the 10 years or what's covered and what isn't, he probably won't tell you that its probably only the frames that are covered for 10 years, the glass units might only be 5 and the metallic moving parts only 1

If he told all his customers this he wouldn't get any sales

 

[ronniecabers]

I know this a few days old....

BUT...when I am out selling , I won't sell ' Infill Panels ' in woodgrains for this very reason. They have been cracking for years, I remember one installation we had that within its 10 year warranty we replaced the panel at least 10 times! As Crank says some salesman won't mention the cracking, but as we try and be as honest as possible I always inform the customer of the drawback. I see it as a good opportunity to sell a composite door instead! In my opinion woodgrain infill panels are a horrible product and I just can't see how manufacturers of them make any money with the amount that have to be replaced.

 

[GloriousMajesty]

Great to read that there is still some integrity out there! - informing the customer of all info so they can then decide whether to still buy a product with potential drawbacks (especially for those with south facing properties) or opt for an alternative. Presented with the probable need to replace in future years when warranty has expired, customers could spend that extra cost on a more robust door in the first place.

In my case, nothing was mentioned about the heat/sun problems with dark woodgrain window/door products ... until, on day of installation, a casual comment that they were aware of previous customers having issues on south facing elevations. Despite their knowledge of this, they still sold the products to me. Personally, I go for honesty up front every time.

Note to self: be fully "googled-up" before buying anything

 

[crank39]

I don't own my own DG company, I don't sell owt but like Ronnie I tell people how it is, the people I see though aren't customers but rather policy holders, our customer is the insurance company.

Back on cracking infill panels Ronnie mentioned upgrading to a composite door, well I have (or I did have before I swapped phones) plenty of photos I could post here of cracked composites too.....all light oak or rosewood and even coloured sprayed doors, from what I've seen they are not immune to cracking, rockdoor, solidor, doorstop, rocal, I had pictures of them all

EDIT; Found a few pics in my albums

 

[ronniecabers]

Thanks for the pics Crank ... not something I've ever come across, will keep my eyes peeled for this, as it looks like old problems surfacing again. Ever come across Perma Doors ( Safe Doors ) doing it?

 

[crank39]

Not one I've come across..........yet!

IMO the quality of the panels has got worse over the years, been in the game over 20 years but its only just recently (last 5 years) I've noticed a sudden rise from nowhere with cracking panels, either that or the sun's got a lot stronger?