Is a spring loaded flap a shutter?
Ceeform outlets in a household or similar premises
- Thread starter Adam_151
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That is what, in context, I was asking you.
Regardless of whether, considered in isolation, one would regard a spring-loaded flap as a 'shutter', my question was whether you believe that a socket with such a flap (and no other 'shutter') could be regarded as a "shuttered socket" in relation to BS7671.
Although it's your answer I will be interested to hear, I've already offered my personal opinion - that I don't think that such a flap is adequate to correspond with the spirit of what BS7671 probably means (without a definition) by a 'shuttered socket'.
Kind regards, John
Maybe not but if said flap meets the dictionary definition of a shutter, how can you argue against it?
Something that shuts [something else] ???
Dictionaries seem to concentrate on windows and cameras so perhaps the things in plugs are not really shutters.
shutter a movable part incorporated into a socket-outlet arranged to shield at least the live socket-outlet contacts automatically when the plug is withdrawn
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Very easily, if one applies common sense. For many (maybe even most) words, dictionaries often include definitions which are not appropriate in certain contexts.
Anyway, flameport has now provided you with an ('in context'0 definition.
Kind Regards, John
Quite so. Even if EFLI regards that flap as a "shutter", it is redundant in terms of the present context, since what it covers when closed is a socket which is already "shuttered" in the normal electrical sense.
If the underlying socket itself was not "shuttered" (in the normal electrical sense) then I, for one, would certainly not consider that the flap meant that it qualified as a "shuttered socket"!
Kind Regards, John
I'm inclined to agree with the view that whilst a switch interlock mechanism doesn't equal a shutter, it does satisfy the same safety function, i.e. that curious little fingers can't poke things in and make contact with live parts.
What I said. For a high proportion of words, dictionaries contain a variety of definitions applicable to different contexts, so one has to apply common sense in deciding which definition is relevant to the context in question.
In fact, in relation to "shutter" I've just looked at a number of online dictionaries, and nearly all of them major on camera shutters and window shutters, obviously neither of which has anything to do with the context we are discussing.
I would say that is probably debatable, even though the spring should, to some extent, "shield at least the live contacts when the plug is withdrawn".
In any event, is this discussion not getting a bit silly? Am I the only person who would not be happy to have my children exposed to a situation in which electrically live parts could be touched by opening an ('easily opened') flap held in place by nothing other than a relatively weak spring? I personally feel that common sense, based on considerations of safety (particularly of children) should take precedence over academic discussions about definitions', don't you?
Kind Regards, John
I'm also inclined to that view. However, what people are now talking about is not a 'switch interlock mechanism' but, rather (based on 'dictionary definitions') an easily opened flap which is 'held closed' only by a fairly weak spring.
Kind Regards, John
No, I wouldn't consider just a flap to be adequate.
I don't think the dictionary definition of a shutter matters here. Perhaps the BS1363 definition would be the one to go with? I don't know the actual wording of that but I'm sure it includes some mention of the mechanism being operated by inserting the plug.
..which is the basis of my reasoning that a switch interlock, also operated by the insertion of the plug, is an acceptable alternative.
I'm pleased to hear that - and I would hope that most others here (including EFLI, despite dictionaries) would feel the same.
Indeed - that's exactly what I've been saying.
It would be, if it existed and was well-written, BUT ...
... the whole problem (which has facilitated this somewhat silly discussion) is that BS7671 does not have a definition (whether well-written or not) - merely saying (in 503.1.201) that sockets in domestic installations "shall be of the shuttered type"!!
Kind Regards, John
I have one too..
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