Ceiling Rose Removal for IKEA light installation

[Nope]

Hi everyone,

My wife and I recently got a room redecorated and she has asked me about fitting a set of spotlights we got from IKEA. When we moved into the house we discovered that the room in question had a god awful looking round fluorescent light thing that was bright enough to light the dark side of the moon and made that annoying fluorescent hum at night.

Before the decorator came in I opened up this light and discovered that it was just wired into the remains of the ceiling rose that was once there - the fitting itself was designed to fit around the ceiling rose once the cover had been removed.

The IKEA light has a simple setup of live, neutral and earth going into a terminal block (I believe it’s also called a chocolate block) so I’m going to have to remove the ceiling rose to do this.

I’m fairly confident I’ll be able to do this myself - I’ve been wiring plugs since I was 10 years old and I have done things like replace light switches and sockets. I also found a YouTube video where an electrician went through the process step by step.

In the video he talked about identifying the wires, and explained about loop in and loop out and switched live etc and then showed how to replicate the wiring in the ceiling rise using Wago connectors. I am fairly confident I will be able to do this.

I’ve attached a picture of my ceiling road setup here just for reference. I believe the single red wire on the far left of the photo is switched live. The red wires in centre will, I believe, be permanent live and run to/from other ceiling lights.



My question to you good folks is about these Wago connectors. In the video, the guy connected everything up and then just pushed the Wago connectors back up through the hole, leaving only a short piece of 3 core wire to connect to the spotlight. However I was doing a bit of reading last night and quite a few people said that in order for wiring to comply with relevant British Standards the Wago connectors would need to be in some kind of enclosure. I’ve been looking at some of these enclosures and none of them seem to be small enough to fit through the hole in the ceiling. I’m not keen on making a bigger hole and then plastering over it, as some people have suggested.

What are my options here?

 

[mcprinter]

DIYer

Ceiling rose wiring seems to confuse a lot of people. If you understand what does what it is pretty simple.
A before photo is always a good idea

The connections should be in a junction box.
Can you get access from above?
What does the new light look like? Would it hide the hole required for a junction box?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

A photo of the business end of the new fitting, might also be of use.

Any chance you can squeeze a strip of 4 connectors, into the fitting?

 

[Sureitsoff?]

Looks like you have an extra t&e connected there as well as the normal ones. Depending on how big a housing the new light has it might fit over the existing ceiling rose. I have been lucky in the past and done just this with the usual bit of bent metal bracket sliding under the rose and being held by the original screws!!

 

[RandomGrinch]

Also a DIY'er, but for all my IKEA fittings, I've used the Greenbrook lighting connector - very useful if the fitting is heavy...

Greenbrook Lighting Connector

A 3-pole 20A lighting connector for quick and efficient fitting of multiple downlights and lighting fixtures. With its simple lock-and-release system, it’s so easy to wire up and connect – and just as easy to disconnect when maintenance is required. Suitable for a wide variety of connecting...

www.toolstation.com

Yes, the hole may need to be made a bit bigger to fit the blocks through, but it is not excessive.

As for,

However I was doing a bit of reading last night and quite a few people said that in order for wiring to comply with relevant British Standards the Wago connectors would need to be in some kind of enclosure.

I may be wrong, but IMHO when you remove the light fitting, the connection block will be totally accessible, so although an enclosure would be ideal, a maintenance-free one wouldn't strictly be necessary...

 

[Nope]

DIYer

Ceiling rose wiring seems to confuse a lot of people. If you understand what does what it is pretty simple.
A before photo is always a good idea

The connections should be in a junction box.
Can you get access from above?
What does the new light look like? Would it hide the hole required for a junction box?

Access from above won’t be possible unfortunately.

As regards what the new light looks like, see attached photos. The metal fitting is 13cm diameter and screws onto a bracket which screws into the ceiling. It might hide a hole, depending on how big the junction box is but I don’t particularly want to make holes in the ceiling if I can avoid it.

 

[Nope]

A photo of the business end of the new fitting, might also be of use.

Any chance you can squeeze a strip of 4 connectors, into the fitting?

See the attached photo for the inside of new fitting. The thing is 13cm so I might be able to squeeze in some connectors if they are small enough.

 

[Nope]

Looks like you have an extra t&e connected there as well as the normal ones. Depending on how big a housing the new light has it might fit over the existing ceiling rose. I have been lucky in the past and done just this with the usual bit of bent metal bracket sliding under the rose and being held by the original screws!!

Ok that’s interesting. Hadn’t considered that. The housing is 13cm diameter so it might actually work!

 

[Nope]

Also a DIY'er, but for all my IKEA fittings, I've used the Greenbrook lighting connector - very useful if the fitting is heavy...

Greenbrook Lighting Connector

A 3-pole 20A lighting connector for quick and efficient fitting of multiple downlights and lighting fixtures. With its simple lock-and-release system, it’s so easy to wire up and connect – and just as easy to disconnect when maintenance is required. Suitable for a wide variety of connecting...

www.toolstation.com

Yes, the hole may need to be made a bit bigger to fit the blocks through, but it is not excessive.

As for,

I may be wrong, but IMHO when you remove the light fitting, the connection block will be totally accessible, so although an enclosure would be ideal, a maintenance-free one wouldn't strictly be necessary...

Thanks for this. I will look into those connectors. As for your second point, would that still be compliant with legislation? M

 

[Adam_151]

You will be able to fit the connections in the base of that fitting. Take the ceiling rose down, having made sure you can identify your switch live, mount the bracket and bring the cables through the middle. Make your connections in wagos and dress the cores so they sit flat on the ceiling, not stacking up on one another, strip down 6" of 3c flex to make some pig-tails and connect those into the fitting on the bench. Connect the other ends to the wagos, dress the excess length round in the base and fit the grub screws (bit of blue tack on screwdriver helps!)

 

[Nope]

You will be able to fit the connections in the base of that fitting. Take the ceiling rose down, having made sure you can identify your switch live, mount the bracket and bring the cables through the middle. Make your connections in wagos and dress the cores so they sit flat on the ceiling, not stacking up on one another, strip down 6" of 3c flex to make some pig-tails and connect those into the fitting on the bench. Connect the other ends to the wagos, dress the excess length round in the base and fit the grub screws (bit of blue tack on screwdriver helps!)

Thanks for that. What you’re proposing sounds a lot easier. What diameter of 3 core flex will be needed? I was reading online that 1 to 1.5mm is needed for lighting.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

See the attached photo for the inside of new fitting. The thing is 13cm so I might be able to squeeze in some connectors if they are small enough.

If you just swap out the three 5amp connectors for a four, that may prove to be all you need. Mark the single switch wire, before you start, to avoid later confusion. Either a bit of tape, sleeving, or marker pen might be all that you need.

 

[Nope]

If you just swap out the three 5amp connectors for a four, that may prove to be all you need. Mark the single switch wire, before you start, to avoid later confusion. Either a bit of tape, sleeving, or marker pen might be all that you need.

Thanks, another possibility.

 

[Nope]

Ok so I have bought a set of Wago connectors and some 3 core flex. I’ll follow Adam_151’s suggestion and see how I get on.

 

[Nope]

Ok, update for you all. I had a go at wiring the light this evening, and it’s working perfectly! It was a bit fiddly getting all the wires lined up and into the Wago connectors but I got there in the end.