Ceiling rose removal to "normal" connection?

[ShortyK]

Hey folks, about to undertake the first of many of these around the house over time.
New light is double insulated.

So would I be right in saying.

Furthest left 2 black wires, go into 3 way wago, with the new light neutral going into the 3rd slot.

Middle 2 red wires, terminated in a 2 way wago.

Furthest red wire (switched I assume) in a 3 way wago with the new light live wire connected to the 3rd slot.

Earth (add sleeving) then terminated in single or 2 way wago.

That sounds right? Appreciate any help in advance!
Thank you!

 

[ETAF]

about to undertake the first of many of these around the house over time.

you may not find all the ceiling rose look like that - as often you have the switched cable - a twin cable - would goto the middle set of three and then to the switch and then backup from the switch - so often you have a black which is live or switched live - BUT it looks like you have 2 T&E so live/Neutral in and then out to another light fixture - BUT a single core from the switch - so would be interesting to see the switch - maybe another connector block in the ceiling

Are you using a maintenace free box/enclosure that will go into the ceiling void or how will the light fitting have the wago in ?

see here

Looped Ceiling Rose

Description and illustration of a looped ceiling rose

flameport.com

And OLD colours

Older colour codes for ceiling rose

Older colour codes as previously used on UK lighting circuits with ceiling roses

flameport.com

 

[pete01]

Sounds about right to me

 

[ShortyK]

you may not find all the ceiling rose look like that - as often you have the switched cable - a twin cable - would goto the middle set of three and then to the switch and then backup from the switch - so often you have a black which is live or switched live - BUT it looks like you have 2 T&E so live/Neutral in and then out to another light fixture - BUT a single core from the switch - so would be interesting to see the switch - maybe another connector block in the ceiling

Are you using a maintenace free box/enclosure that will go into the ceiling void or how will the light fitting have the wago in ?

see here

Looped Ceiling Rose

Description and illustration of a looped ceiling rose

flameport.com

And OLD colours

Older colour codes for ceiling rose

Older colour codes as previously used on UK lighting circuits with ceiling roses

flameport.com

Ah, if it helps that particular light has two switches one from either side of the room - that could explain it?

I'll probably keep the wagos dangling and hidden by the new fixtures "surround"

 

[ETAF]

maybe , not sure about that
depends on how the lights are wired

Two way switched lighting circuits #1

Wiring details for two way lighting circuits as used in the UK

flameport.com

Two way switched lighting circuits #2

Wiring details for two way UK lighting circuits, alternate connection option

flameport.com

 

[ShortyK]

In the same room, the other light rose indeed looks different

 

[pete01]

For the light you want to do first your instructions are correct.

Take it light by light come back and ask for help if needed.

Always take before pictures

Mark with a marker pen or tape where needed

Always turn the power off, obviously

 

[pete01]

In the same room, the other light rose indeed looks different

Same as before really, just dont mix them up.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Ah. The perfectly obvious at first glance to DIYers diagrams - with only two wires at each light.


Much more useful:

Electrics:Lighting Circuit layouts

www.diynot.com

 

[endecotp]

Furthest red wire (switched I assume) in a 3 way wago with the new light live wire connected to the 3rd slot.

Why use a three-way wago for only two wires?

 

[ShortyK]

Why use a three-way wago for only two wires?

Good catch! Haha! 2 way!

 

[robinbanks]

Before you do anything else, and before you disconnect anything, get a sharpie/some tippex and put a different number of lines/dots on each wire (so you have a red wire with no lines, a red wire with one line, a red wire with two lines…)

Then take a picture; a picture of 3 red wires all connected up before you started is no good if you can’t tell them apart after you disconnect them. Sometimes you get lucky with shape, stains, stray old paint etc but help yourself out; make wires obviously unique then take a picture

Next; your wagos are the exact replacement of the little brass bars. If 3 wires go into the same brass bar trapped by screws then those 3 wires shall go into a 3 way wago instead. If you’re running more light fittings off the same rose you can replace that brass bar with a wago with more ways, one extra way per extra light fitting

Your new light fitting goes where the old brown and blue connect up. If the new fitting is large enough to go over the old rose, just do that. If the new fitting hangs off a U shaped bar it can work well to remove old screw from the old rose, trap that bar behind the rose and screw it back up

If your new fitting is double insulated, simply don’t connect the earth up

 

[ericmark]

A circuit protective conductor shall be run to and terminated at each point in wiring and at each accessory except a
lampholder having no exposed-conductive-parts and suspended from such a point.

so even if a lamp is class II it needs a terminal for the earth wire, unless suspended.

In the main, we need a lighting junction box

so the cables are clamped, and we can run cables to the next lamp, including the earth of course.

Pre-1966 the earth requirement was less, so there are lamps designed to be used where there is no earth provided, but even before 1966, the non supply of an earth only applied to filament lamps, installed in a room having a non-conducting floor, mounted at such a height that they cannot readily be touched and are out of reach of earthed metal. So my childhood home with wall lamps did not comply, they were too low, so looking at twelfth edition replaced 1955, I don't have a copy, it may have allowed fluorescent lamps and wall lamps, but would have been rubber cable so unlikely any homes have not been rewired since 1955. So basic fact is all lamps require an earth terminal in the UK.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Why use a three-way wago for only two wires?

Why use Wagos at all? Old school "choc blocks" are just fine for this sort of thing.