Replacing a ceiling rose

[QuestionQuigley]

I've bought a pendant light and it has different wiring to the old one, the new one using a terminal block inside the metal housing. I've done some research into how to change over the wiring, but wanted to run it past the experts on here to make sure my understanding is correct.

This is the old ceiling rose:

Old

• QuestionQuigley
• 6 Jun 2020

It's not clear from the pic, but three earth wires go into that one visible sleeve. Also, I assume that the wire with the black and yellow sleeve is the switched live.

This is the new one:

New

• QuestionQuigley
• 6 Jun 2020

I think I need to do the following:

1. After switching off the electricity supply, disconnect the wiring from the old rose backing plate, remove it and replace with the metal bar that came with the new light - this will hold the new rose in place.
2. Connect the switched live wire to the live connector in the new terminal block.
3. Connect the three earth wires (in the single sleeve) to the earth connector in the terminal block.
4. Connect the two neutral wires (black sleeves) to the neutral connector in the terminal block.
5. Do something with the three red-sleeved live wires. This is where I'm unclear. Should I buy a 3-connection Wago terminal block and secure them in that? If so, is it OK to just leave that loose inside the new light's housing? It looks big enough for that.

Thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, you will need an extra connector for the three reds.

 

[Adam_151]

You are correct in how to connect it, and yes the reds are connected together but not to the fitting, either a wago or connector block is fine as long as its in the base of the light (do not poke it up into the roof void)

Because of the length of the cables (unless there is slack available) and the position of the connector block in the fitting, then because it looks like the base is quite deep, I'd connect short lengths of L N and E onto the fitting on the ground, and then make all of the connections in connectors or wagos and then connect the flying leads from the fitting and hang it up.

If you use a wago for the earths, remember to separate them out, invidually sleeve them and put them in separatate terminals on the wago, you shouldn't put more than one wire in each terminal on it. Wagos are available in 2, 3 and 5. Or just use connector block.

When you are connecting the fitting, I find it usful to use a bit of scrap cable threaded through the mounting holes in the fitting and the bracket and tied off, the fitting will hang there while you work, when conencted, snip it, pull it out and then secure the fitting to the bracket in the normal way

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Isn't it about time ceiling light manufacturers started making their products compatible with actual ceiling roses? Changing a light fitting has got to be the most common electrical DIY job there is. Why not fit larger terminals with better screws; extra terminals for the loop wires and a little more room for everything?

 

[winston1]

Isn't it about time ceiling light manufacturers started making their products compatible with actual ceiling roses? Changing a light fitting has got to be the most common electrical DIY job there is. Why not fit larger terminals with better screws; extra terminals for the loop wires and a little more room for everything?

Probably because other countries don't use the ceiling rose as a junction box. It would cost more to make a special version for the UK.

 

[QuestionQuigley]

You are correct in how to connect it, and yes the reds are connected together but not to the fitting, either a wago or connector block is fine as long as its in the base of the light (do not poke it up into the roof void)

Because of the length of the cables (unless there is slack available) and the position of the connector block in the fitting, then because it looks like the base is quite deep, I'd connect short lengths of L N and E onto the fitting on the ground, and then make all of the connections in connectors or wagos and then connect the flying leads from the fitting and hang it up.

If you use a wago for the earths, remember to separate them out, invidually sleeve them and put them in separatate terminals on the wago, you shouldn't put more than one wire in each terminal on it. Wagos are available in 2, 3 and 5. Or just use connector block.

When you are connecting the fitting, I find it usful to use a bit of scrap cable threaded through the mounting holes in the fitting and the bracket and tied off, the fitting will hang there while you work, when conencted, snip it, pull it out and then secure the fitting to the bracket in the normal way

Thanks, that's really helpful info. I've ordered some Wago blocks so I'll have the option of using those as you describe if there isn't enough slack.

 

[QuestionQuigley]

I'm finally tackling this job today. I've removed the fuse for the lighting circuit and checked the light no longer comes on. However, I'd like to use my multimeter to confirm the circuit is dead. I've looked at a few YouTube videos showing how to use these things and find it all a bit confusing.

Here's a photo of the multimeter:

Multimeter

• QuestionQuigley
• 25 Jul 2020

Could anyone tell me exactly: (1) what settings I should use on the dial and the slider at the top; (2) what I should touch with the red and black probes to check for electricity?

Thanks.

 

[flameport]

If that's all you have got, then the top slide switch is set at AC Volts - the left position where it is now.
The rotary one to 500V.

Probes to every pair of terminals in the ceiling rose:
earth & L
earth & N,
earth & switched L
L and switched L
L and N
N and switched L

There should be no reading for any of those combinations.

The meter should also be used on a known live supply to confirm it's working and does actually show the voltage.

 

[QuestionQuigley]

Thanks for that info. I was able to use the meter to check the circuit.

The light is now up and working!