Problems with loop-in-rose. No wires in centre terminal!

[bernardgreen]

One question I would like to ask, why is the LED on this old switch to the loft light on all the time now even when the light is switched off? It wasn't like this on the last application it was used, which was a switch for a cupboard light, and just plugged into a socket!

The neon lamp is on the OUT ( or LOAD ) side of the switch. You have connected the incoming supply to the OUT side of the switch.

ancient double pole switch .....cable from an old washing machine

Why not use new items ?

How old is the switch ? How worn or brittle is that cable ?

Is it as safe as you hope it is [/quote]

 

[pappyon]

Zambezi

In all sincerity, is there something wrong with the way I have done the wiring, if so I would rather be told so that it can be rectified or if dangerous, torn out!

Don't pull any punches!

 

[ColJack]

ok, what's the rules on having a double socket on a 10mm radial with a 45A breaker protecting it ?

seriously.. where do you live? If it's near I could pop in and have a look for you..

failing that, get your camera aout and take a switch or 3 off and post the photo's.. same with the corresponding ceiling rose..

 

[Zambezi]

More info needed to make a proper judgement on what you have done (as ColJack said).

The way I read your post it goes something like this:

Consumer Unit
MCB (you don't say what rating it is?)
Old shower cable (can be anything from 2.5mm to 10mm?)
FCU (you don't mention where this is and I am guessing it has a 13A fuse in it?)
Cable (you don't say what size it is, could be 0.75mm flex for all I know?)
Immersion heater Isolator
Cable from old washing machine (you don't say what size or type of cable?)
Fluorescent light fitting.

Then you say you have fitted a socket outlet to the 10mm cable (which cable is this? where does it factor into the circuit above?)

Too many blanks and potentially a number of problems with it....
More details = more informed response.

 

[Click-Sure]

A double socket outlet that will take two (or one for that matter) 10mm2 conductors?

I know MK say you can get 2x6mm2 conductors in their logic 3 range, but I've never heard of anything with a more substansial claim.

 

[pappyon]

The cable I am using is 10mm2 and was only fitted in the last couple of years.

I haven't checked the mcb which supplied the shower, but will do so tomorrow. The shower was the only thing to come off it. I would imagine it would be rated to take enough power to supply the 10mm2 cable.

The fcu is fitted inside the loft adjacent to the hatch and the light switch I fitted and does has a 13 amp fuse. Is this wrong? What I did was use the cable supplying the shower unit and join it to the piece of cable which had gone to the pull cord switch in the bathroom using the FCU to give me the extra length on the cable and fitted a socket to the other end. I then took a connection from inside the FCU to the neon light switch.

The cable from the FCU to the light switch is 1.5mm2 and earth

Admittedly the switch I am using for the light is old, but it has lain in my loft for over 30 years and is a top quality MK unit.

In relation to the cable to the fluorescent light from the above switch. This was the twin and earth flex for a washing machine, and looks as fresh as the day it was bought! I have it wired straight into the florry.

I will take Any recommendations very seriously

By the way it is a neon light on the switch, and not a LED. Sorry and thanks again to everybody for their help and perseverance!

 

[ColJack]

[code:1]
LIGHT
|
Light
Switch
|
10mm---FCU---10mm----Socket.

[/code:1]

that look about right?

put a 3A fuse in the FCU for the light, and your socket would normally be on a 32A breaker, but if the breaker is right to protect the cable then it shouldn't be a problem..

 

[pappyon]

ColJack.

Your diagram sums up to a tee what I have done.

One more question please.

If I change the fuse in the FCU from 13amp to 3amp, does that mean it will be inclined to blow when I use an electric drill or something similar, as it will also be protecting the socket I have fitted, or am I talking rubbish?

 

[Zambezi]

If the FCU is before the the socket then yes.
Ideally you want the fcu protecting the lighting circuit and the existing breaker (MCB) protecting the the socket.
Please can you confirm the rating of the breaker protecting the circuit?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

pappyon - I'm confused - have you done this:

[code:1] LIGHT
|
Light
Switch
|
.----10mm----Socket
|
|
10mm---FCU[/code:1]
or this:

[code:1] LIGHT
|
Light
Switch
|
10mm---FCU---10mm----Socket[/code:1]



If the former, then yes, the fuse will be taking the load of the socket as well, but why did you use 10mm² on the load side, and how did you join the 1.5mm² to the 10mm²?

If the latter, how did you manage to get 2 x 10mm² cables into the supply side of the FCU, and no, the fuse in the FCU will not be carrying the load of the socket.

 

[pappyon]

Zambezi
I haven't been round to the house yet to check the rating of the MCB but will report this when I have done.

Ban-all-sheds
I have done the wiring per the latter of your diagrams.

As I have said I used 1.5mm2 cable from the FCU to the switch and spurred it from inside the FCU

I managed to get the two lots of 10mm2 cable into the FCU bu using the celing switch housing for the electric shower that I did away with and a normal FCU plate with a light. I put one end of the cable into the line and the other into the load side. (Don't know if that's the right terminology) The hardest part was getting the cover on and getting the screws into it!!

 

[rebuke]

So, the FCU has a set of supply terminals, and a set of load terminals - what exactly is wired to each?

From your post I think you're saying you have:

10mm supply from consumer unit in to supply side
10mm to socket in load side
1.5mm to light switch in load side

Which is fine, but if the socket is wired to the load side, you don't need 10mm for it, as the fuse in the FCU will protect it, so you could run 1.5mm or something like that.

If you're saying the 1.5mm to the light switch is in the supply side (you said 'spurred it from inside the FCU', which is confusing), then that is definitely wrong, as that 1.5mm has no extra protection, so in the event of a fault could take the full current the MCB would allow, and melt/catch fire...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Your description is not what the 2nd drawing is - that shows 2 x 10mm² cables on the supply side (1 from the CU, the other going to the socket) and a 1.5mm² on the load side going to the light.

Sounds more like this is what you've done:

[code:1] LIGHT
|
Light
Switch .----------Socket
| |
| |
1.5mm² 10mm²
\ /
\ /
\/
10mm---FCU[/code:1]

In which case the fuse will be taking the load of the socket too.

But if you did do that, then 2 questions:

1) Does the maker of the FCU say that you can put a 10mm² and a 1.5mm² cable into the same terminals?

2) Why on earth did you use 10mm² to go to the socket when 1.5mm² would have been fine?

 

[pappyon]

I,m not technically minded enough to understand Rebuke's questions. I will have to study the post in greater detail and check the wiring in the FCU again before I can reply. What is frightening me now is being told that I might have created a potential fire hazard in my loft.

If this information is of any use, when I switch the current off at the FCU the loft light goes out and there is also no current to the socket!

Ban-all-sheds
I have just used an ordinary FCU and as far as I can make out now I shouldn't have used it for the purpose that I have done. I never had any information that I could use it for such a purpose. As far as I knew I was just using it in the way that you would run wiring from a socket to add another one.

In answer to the second question, I used 10mm2 cable because it was just lying in the loft doing nothing and was spare from when I dismantled the electric shower, and for no other reason!

 

[pappyon]

Rebuke
Which is the supply side, and which is the load side please?

Will not be able to post till this evening as I am going round to the house!