Central Heating - going loopy?

[2520years]

I'm a newly qualifited plumber who's been asked to quote for a job in a bungalow.

He's having a new back door fitted where there wasn't one before and he's moving the kitchen to the back of the house into the same room. Unfortunately, that causes a problem with the flow and return pipes for the central heating i.e. in that room he wants the radiator and pipes completely removing.

I think I'll have to have two flows and returns coming down from the loft so that the radiators in the rooms either side of the new back door can be heated. I've never had two loops before on central heating, nor worked on a bungalow, so my question is: Is there anything I should know before I quote?

It's a two-pipe system run in 15mm.
Altogether he wants:
1) central heating pipes either side of the back door capping off
2) in new kitchen - radiator/pipes removing, but hot and cold putting in
3) old hot and cold pipes removing from the old kitchen
4) old shower removing (hot and cold pipes)
5) a radiator moving a couple of metres in the lounge

I was thinking of quoting £700...

Thanks in advance, to more experienced plumbers than me!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Best advice I can give you is to get jiggy with an excel spreadhseet.

Make a column that has your common materials, labour costs etc..

then another column that has the quantities of each you'll be using.

Then another with any markups.

Finally you'll need a cell that calcualtes the overall costs.

This way you can systematically build up the costs of a project. Mine statred off very simple and is now quite advanced - with all the boiler kits I use on a separate sheet that links back to the main one.

It has been developed to the point that I turn it into a PDF and email it to clients with the estimates and borchures - my hit rate for work went up significantly and I was surpised at how little moaning was done about the laboru breakdowns (or company charge as I like to call it).

 

[2520years]

Thanks Dan.

I've done a simple version of that to get to £700. The parts should be £50-£100 and I reckon I could do it in five days at £100/day. Then there's the mark up and contingency to make the £550-£600 up to £700.

Is it okay to have two loops on the central heating? I can't see why not, but I don't want to do all that, only for it not to work.

 

[Dan Robinson]

two loops

Can't quite picture what you mean, but assuming you mean you are just extending off the existing, then there should be a problem - although balancing could be fun.

 

[2520years]

The flow and return go along the loft, all the way to the far side of the bungalow. At the far end they drop down into a bedroom. I'm proposing to tee-off part-way round and drop another two pipes down into the bathroom, solely for the bathroom radiator.

 

[simond]

Rather a basic question, Grasshopper .

Should be fine. Main problem is usually getting the water out of the vertical drops, and then getting it back in again.

 

[2520years]

Rather a basic question, Grasshopper .

Should be fine. Main problem is usually getting the water out of the vertical drops, and then getting it back in again.

I know, sorry! I've not done this before, and I can't afford to pipe it all up for it not to work. (I've done a few jobs, but I only qualified last week.)

What do you reckon? Is £700 about right?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Your price is down to you. How long will it take and how much do you want to earn off it. What is the going rate in your area?

 

[gas4you]

I reckon I could do it in five days at £100/day. Then there's the mark up and contingency to make the £550-£600 up to £700.

£100 / day, thats charity, not a living £250 - £300 /day is the going rate round my area.

Mark up materials at about 20%.

Quotes can be awkward when you are new, spreadsheets help, but unless you know how long it will take you you could be miles out.

 

[2520years]

All I know is that my tutor reckons he charges £120/day and fitting a bathroom usually costs about £400 (like for like). I don't know any plumbers personally, or else I'd ask them.

I've estimated it'll take me no more than 5 days @ £100/day and added £200 for materials and conitigency.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Very true!

 

[2520years]

I reckon I could do it in five days at £100/day. Then there's the mark up and contingency to make the £550-£600 up to £700.

£100 / day, thats charity, not a living £250 - £300 /day is the going rate round my area.

Mark up materials at about 20%.

Quotes can be awkward when you are new, spreadsheets help, but unless you know how long it will take you you could be miles out.

Thanks gas. The rates are lower in the North of England. CORGI fitters can charge what you're saying though. For example, one quoted me £1600 for a two-day job. I don't know how long this job will take, which, as you rightly say, is the problem. I'm the slow careful type if anything.

I think I'll stick with my quote as no-one's convinced me otherwise so far.

Thanks very much for your help.

 

[Dan Robinson]

At the vey least whack another hundrend a day on.

Don't set too low a precedent.

 

[2520years]

I have thought that I wouldn't want to undercut the market too much. But I've got to remember that:
1) I can't, in good conscience, charge the same as someone experienced.
2) I need the work more than most as I'm just starting out, and I'm skint after taking a year out for college.
3) I can't charge £200/day in Warrington as I won't get any work at all (unless it needs CORGI).

Maybe I'll stick a bit on, but I can't go from £700 to £1200...surely!

Is there anyone out there who works in the North who can tell me the going daily rate for a non-CORGI plumber?

 

[Agile]

Its difficult without seeing exactly whats involved.

You also seem to be saying the whole Ch systen is fed by 15 mm. If the load of over 3 kW then that will be undersized. Feeding from the boiler in 22 mm and splitting into two 15 mm will help to overcome that problem.

However my initial reaction is that you are new, unskilled, and probably very slow.

I would have expected a fast chap would have done all that in a day! And charged about £200-£300.

It probably will take you five days if you are new but you cannot expect to charge the customer for your slowness.

£700 sounds too much to me! There are firms in Cov who will provide and fit a NEW boiler and seven rads for £1700.

Tony